Talk:Evita (musical)/Archive 1

Switched Pictures

In what may be a controversial move, I switched pictures from the Madonna picture to the original Broadway cast recording. I thought a picture of the album that says "Evita" on it would be better than a picture of Madonna with no logo. Also, that picture of Madonna was not really from the movie but from a photoshoot with Vogue or Vanity Fair, one of the two. Anyway, I'm not interested in arguing. If it gets switched back to the Madonna picture, so be it. Dancemaster 23:18, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

But the Broadway recording is no more original than the movie. For the original you surely need to refer to the concept album. -- Derek Ross | Talk 08:13, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Che Guevara or "Che"?

Are you sure that the narrator is Che Guevara? From what I remember about the movie, it's just Che, a common Argentinian nickname. It's left to the spectator whether he is Guevara. -- Error

Yes, the narrator is Che Guevara, not the literal historical character, but a literary composite inspired by him. The corruption of the real Perons' version of "socialism" led to the radicalism of the real-life Che. Rlquall 01:05, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

Perons weren't "socialists." They were "Justicialistas." The technical name for Peronism in Argentina is "Justicia Social," or "Social Justice," and often "Justicialismo" -- which can't really be translated to English. Juan Peron said that "Justicialism" was a cross between Capitalism and Communism.

In the musical version of the story he is indeed Che Guevara. This is explicitly stated in the liberetto, where Lloyd Webber and Rice make the point of saying, "To our knowledge, Eva Peron and Che Guevara never met." Note the cap on Mandy Patinkin which is similar to Che Guevara's in that famous portrait of him: http://mandypatinkin.net/EVITA/evita3b.jpeg

The director of the movie version with Madonna changed that, and made the Che Guevara character just a "che," or "dude," as that word is used in Argentina. The director of the movie version said he thought it was too confusing and too muddled to have it be Che Guevara. Dancemaster 23:02, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

Actually, I believe when the concept recording was still written, he wasn't Che Guevera, just "Che", and then when it went to the stage, Che became THE Che Guevara. --Rob Dawg

The section that says "There is no evidence that Eva and Che Gueverra ever met" is false, I've just done a google search and found a picture of Juan, Che and Eva at http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.dictatorofthemonth.com/Peron/che_eva_peron.jpeg&imgrefurl=http://www.dictatorofthemonth.com/Peron/pictures_of_peron.htm&h=386&w=292&sz=18&hl=en&start=12&tbnid=pCmNrM00oXFGwM:&tbnh=123&tbnw=93&prev=/images%3Fq%3Deva%2Bperon%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN, though I admit it may be difficult to authenticate - William Noetling

Effect on history?

By the time of the Falklands War, this musical had already run on the West End for over three years. Nearly all influential Britons were aware of, or had seen it, well before then. Isn't it arguable that its nightly presentation of most Argentinians, including some leading ones, as a group of greedy fools, made the Thatcherite natural tendancy for the "lion to protect her own" even more inevitable than it otherwise was? Rlquall 01:18, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

• Actually, the London version of this play was a lot different from the version that made its way to New York. The Evita in the London version was much more sympathetic. I've read that the writers made the New York Broadway version more hostile to Eva Peron because of the fact that New York has a large Jewish population. The (incorrect) perception was that Eva Peron was a Nazi sympathizer, and the large Jewish population would've been up in arms that Lloyd Webber was glamorizing a Nazi sympathizer. So he made the portrayal of Evita that much more hostile so as to make it clear that he did not sympathize with an alleged Nazi sympathizer. Beyond that, England has always had close ties to Argentina. Most of the upper classes in Argentina are very much aligned with the English. So, I think that most upper class in England already had their perception of Argentina in place before this musical came along. I don't think it had much impact. Dancemaster 23:15, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

You're right. It didn't. Most Britons liked (and still like) Argentina. They blamed the Argentinian junta for the invasion rather than Argentina itself. Getting back to the musical though, I'm surprised that there's nothing about the Broadway rewrite of the London show in the main article since it seems to have been pretty significant. -- Derek Ross | Talk 08:21, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

The West End version is the one that I've seen, not the Broadway one. Evita doesn't seem all that sympathetic to me in it. She must be a monster in the Broadway version. Rlquall 12:48, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Lyrically speaking, I don't see how anybody could claim it is sympathetic at all, even the London version. Also notable is that Tim Rice was enthralled by Eva, and Andrew Lloyd Webber loathed her. Supposedly Rice said to Webber once something along the lines once of "Alright so she's a bitch, but let's make her a glamourous bitch". --RobDawg

Why is Eva Perón called Evita?

Does anybody know why Eva Perón is called Evita?

• In Spanish it is common to make a diminutive of a name. For example, if your name is Rosa, one might call you "Little Rosa." In Spanish, one would append "ita" to the name and it would become "Rosita." The "ita" means "little." Hence, "Eva" becomes "Evita" or "Little Eva."

In other words, adding "ito"/"ita" on to the end of a male/female name in Spanish, makes a nickname out of the name. "Eva" becomes "Evita." "Juana" becomes "Juanita." "Rosa" becomes "Rosita." "Juan" becomes "Juanito." "Carlos" becomes "Carlitos." "Pedro" becomes "Pedrito." Dancemaster 07:05, 10 October 2005 (UTC)Jclerman 15:52, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

So, does anybody know why Juan Perón is not called Juanito?

There were occasions where Evita in private referred to Peron as "Juancito." (Sometimes a "c" is inserted in there when it is for men.) The reason Juan Peron wasn't referred to by his nickname is because he was the president of the country.

See, Argentina is an extremely formal country. They are very into formality and social rank. For Eva Peron to use her nickname "Evita" and to allow the public to call her that, that was a very daring and risky and endearing thing. It would be like if Nancy Reagan had encouraged people to call her "Nanny," or something. Few people in Argentina, especially people in the official/political life, use their nicknames. It's almost unheard of -- especially during that era. (Carlos Menem's wife, Zulema, referred to herself as "Zulemita," but I don't think many people liked her. Isabela Peron referred to herself as "Isabelita," but few people liked her either.)

In other words, it was basically good politics for Eva Peron to use the name "Evita" when she was first lady. It made her seem "down home" and "of the people," which is what she claimed to be, and which is what Peronism claimed to be.

I believe that when she was an actress she was mostly known "Eva Duarte." When she became first lady it became "Evita." Dancemaster 07:05, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

"You Must Love Me"

Should it be mentioned in the article that this song appears only in the film version and is not part of the original theatrical musical? Rlquall 04:29, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

According to the BBC Radio 4 documentary (from Stage to Screen [broadcast 14 June]) the song has been added into the stage version. Have updated the article 195.92.168.168 18:56, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Can confirm that the song is in the current London production at the Adelphi. Zooterkin 08:40, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

--Slayerrob 19:26, 10 September 2006 (UTC)==Historical background==

• See testimonials from her contemporaries.
• See imagination relating to this article. 19 Decenber 2005.

I think Evita is one of the most over-rate musicals of all time (I thought so at the time I saw the performance). I would have swapped the whole lot for one song.

Uh-oh, you again. Are you just going to follow me around on everything I edit about Evita? Do you have any comments to make about this actual page? Talk pages usually aren't intended as places for people to give their reviews of performances. -- Andrew Parodi 01:27, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

The song listing for Evita seems to be clear and correct. However, they are right. That does require cleanup. As this is an encyclopedia, there is no need for the gushing language about how good the songs are. That is a subjective belief. Also, I don't think it is necessary to explain their function in the story. The plot synopsis should take care of that.

I don't see much wrong with it as it now stands. Does it still need to be tagged? Rlquall 12:55, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't think so. Nevertheless, being a fan of the show, I made some additions, but it was fine anyway.

Che and the Insecticide

Hi,

Does anyone happen to know why Che is associated with the insecticide in the latter portion of Rice/Lloyd-Webber's work? I didn't find any information about this on Google, but is this something that's symbolic of goals or people? Jdstroy 07:03, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

What insecticide do you mean? 81.159.253.88 08:15, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

In Evita, Che asks for the licensing of his insecticide.

"Oh my insecticide!" -- Che

"Licensing slaughter of insects is hardly my mission." -- Evita

This sub-plot was on the concept album, but, as far as I know, not present in any subsequent productions. I know it wasn't in the original Broadway production or the movie, but I don't have the original London recording. It was strange, and I've never been able to find an adequate explanation of it. —  MusicMaker 06:50, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Che and the Jeep

The section on Che talks about asking Evita for a Jeep, and then says " Che claimed that the bicycle was never received." What bicycle? Zooterkin 08:31, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Is the musical Evita allowed to be performed in Argentina?

Is the musical allowed to be performed in Argentina? There is obviously much criticism of the potrayal of Eva Peron in "Evita". But is there a Spanish language version of the musical? And if so is it allowed in Argentina? 04:18, August 7, 2006 193.255.230.227

Yes, both the musical and movies are allowed here. We are a democracy, you know? In fact, the movie itself was filmed in the Casa Rosada, our government house, with the autorization of former president Menem. There was some heavy criticism against the movie, though. --Lobizón 20:45, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Tim Rice credit

If I'm not terribly mistaken, Tim Rice was originally uncredited for this show on the concept album, causing the fallout between he and Andrew Lloyd Webber. Am I crazy? (Let me rephrase....) Am I correct? If so, shouldn't it be reflected somewhere in the article? —  MusicMaker 07:01, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

"Dice are Rolling" section

"The stage version, "Dice are Rolling" concluded on a shorter version of the sonnet as Eva collapses due to her growing illness. (At the time her favorite food was pancakes smothered with lard served on a gravy dish.)" (Emphasis added).

I'm not sure what this has to do with the description of the altered songs or the rest of the musical. Would I cause too much controversy if I removed it? 65.95.67.170 20:01, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Evitaoriginalcastrecording.jpg

Image:Evitaoriginalcastrecording.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 06:40, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

I've added a fair use rationale to the image page. Perhaps others could take a look and see if there's anything to add? Ta. Dafyd 09:20, 4 June 2007 (UTC)