Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Bilateral relations
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Bilateral relations[edit]
List of diplomatic missions of the Luhansk People's Republic[edit]
- List of diplomatic missions of the Luhansk People's Republic (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Does not meet Wikipedia's general notability guideline. Aldij (talk) 11:04, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ukraine-related deletion discussions. Aldij (talk) 11:04, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bilateral relations and Lists. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 11:10, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete Already covered elsewhere. Does not need an article. Abhishek0831996 (talk) 12:07, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
Luhansk People's Republic–Russia relations[edit]
- Luhansk People's Republic–Russia relations (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Does not meet Wikipedia's general notability guideline. Aldij (talk) 11:04, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Russia and Ukraine. Aldij (talk) 11:04, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bilateral relations-related deletion discussions. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 11:05, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
Sridharan Madhusudhanan[edit]
- Sridharan Madhusudhanan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Ambassadors are not inherently notable. Marked for notability concerns since 2018. Fails WP:BIO. LibStar (talk) 23:18, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bilateral relations, India, and Azerbaijan. LibStar (talk) 23:18, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 03:04, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete. Per nom. Poor sources with no significant coverage on the biography of the subject. Page about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced is not noteworthy. Fails WP:BIO. RangersRus (talk) 14:47, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
High Commission of Malta, New Delhi[edit]
- High Commission of Malta, New Delhi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:ORG. No in-depth third party coverage. Sources 5-9 merely confirm former high commissioners. LibStar (talk) 22:53, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bilateral relations, India, and Malta. LibStar (talk) 22:53, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete. Per nom. Poor sources and the page fails to be a stand-alone article without significant coverage in the reliable sources independent of the organization. RangersRus (talk) 14:31, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
Embassy of Sudan, London[edit]
- Embassy of Sudan, London (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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No useful secondary sources. Fails WP:GNG. Only sources are a government list of diplomatic missions and a source purportedly about a protest at the embassy more than a decade ago but which appears unrelated. Previously subject of contested PROD and contested merge/redirect. AusLondonder (talk) 16:50, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bilateral relations, Organizations, Sudan, and United Kingdom. AusLondonder (talk) 16:50, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
redirectMerge to Sudan–United Kingdom relations#Diplomatic_missions as is typical for cases where the building is not itself notable. Mangoe (talk) 20:17, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
- Comment I've found the source for the protests and fixed the article, so that information is now verified. Thryduulf (talk) 09:29, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
Daniel Kutner[edit]
- Daniel Kutner (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Ambassadors are not inherently notable. Fails WP:GNG. Uhooep (talk) 11:36, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bilateral relations, Israel, Andorra, Spain, and Argentina. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 18:26, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete Fails WP:BIO. Google News yields very little. Ambassadors are not inherently notable. LibStar (talk) 01:30, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete Agree. Not enough here to justify the article. Fails WP:GNG. MaskedSinger (talk) 07:42, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
Lironne Bar-Sade[edit]
- Lironne Bar-Sade (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Ambassadors are not inherently notable. Fails WP:GNG. Uhooep (talk) 11:11, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Women, Bilateral relations, Israel, Ireland, and Latvia. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 18:22, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete based on 2 primary sources. Google News yields 2 passing mentions. Fails WP:BIO. LibStar (talk) 03:22, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
Margaret Adamson[edit]
- Margaret Adamson (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Ambassadors are not inherently notable. Appears to fail WP:GNG. Uhooep (talk) 20:11, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Women, Bilateral relations, Cambodia, Pakistan, Poland, and Australia. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 20:16, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- Keep The article was very stub-y so I did some work filling it out using the references that were there. Someone with better access to Australian sources can probably improve this even more. Lamona (talk) 03:30, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
Angela Corcoran[edit]
- Angela Corcoran (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Ambassadors are not inherently notable. Appears to fail WP:GNG. Uhooep (talk) 19:59, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Women, Bilateral relations, Cambodia, Myanmar, and Australia. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 20:08, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete There is not enough SIGCOV for her to meet GNG. QuicoleJR (talk) 01:10, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete Coverage is routine. Fails WP:BIO. Ambassadors are not inherently notable. LibStar (talk) 03:15, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
Nicola Rosenblum[edit]
- Nicola Rosenblum (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Ambassadors are not inherently notable. Fails WP:GNG. Uhooep (talk) 07:07, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Women, Bilateral relations, Brunei, and Australia. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk) 08:10, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: I don't find anything beyond press releases or her appearances at various events, not meeting notability requirements. Oaktree b (talk) 13:22, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete Fails WP:BIO. Ambassadors are not inherently notable. LibStar (talk) 03:14, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete I ran searches against Aussie newspapers and got nothing. This is clearly an accomplished government employee who has held significant posts (of which Ambassador is not the only one). Google returns a number of documents but they are all interviews or articles about her by the agencies that employed her, so not independent. I'll check back in case someone with better access to Oz sources finds something. Lamona (talk) 15:59, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
Ruth Adler (diplomat)[edit]
- Ruth Adler (diplomat) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Ambassadors are not inherently notable. Fails WP:GNG. Uhooep (talk) 07:05, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Women, Bilateral relations, Ireland, and Australia. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk) 08:07, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Brunei-related deletion discussions. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 20:10, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete Fails WP:BIO. Ambassadors are not inherently notable. LibStar (talk) 03:09, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: Agree. Fails WP:GNG. Great that these pages are created but first dig further to see if they are notable enough. MaskedSinger (talk) 07:50, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete A search in Ebsco shows that there are sources in the Irish Times and the Borneo Bulletin but I can't see the actual articles. They do appear to be the usual "X shows up at event" or "X is the new/outgoing Y" so those wouldn't provide GNG proof. As she has a doctorate I hoped to find articles in scholar but if they are there I missed them. Part of the problem is the usual "common name" search. At this moment I don't see a way to save this one. Lamona (talk) 16:18, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was redirect to List of high commissioners of Australia to Brunei. — CactusWriter (talk) 22:38, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
Luke Lazarus Arnold[edit]
- Luke Lazarus Arnold (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Ambassadors are not inherently notable. Appears to fail WP:GNG as the references are mostly poor quality passing mentions, and collectively these references don't constitute significant coverage in independent reliable sources. Uhooep (talk) 19:24, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bilateral relations, Brunei, Indonesia, and Australia. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 21:45, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
- Redirect to List of high commissioners of Australia to Brunei per WP:ATD. Sourcing is either not in-depth or not independent from the subject. Pilaz (talk) 21:55, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
- Redirect to List of high commissioners of Australia to Brunei: Appears not to pass WP:GNG and redirect is a sensible alternative to deletion. TarnishedPathtalk 03:28, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
- Redirect to List of high commissioners of Australia to Brunei. WC gudang inspirasi (Read! Talk!) 11:28, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
Morakot Sriswasdi[edit]
- Morakot Sriswasdi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Ambassadors are not inherently notable. Appears to fail WP:GNG. Uhooep (talk) 09:55, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
- Merge It might be more relevant to create a section for Thai ambassadors in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Foreign_Affairs_(Thailand)
- Individual ambassadors might not merit a stand alone page.
- Wikilover3509 (talk) 11:30, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Women, Bilateral relations, Laos, and Thailand. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 12:03, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Austria, Slovakia, and Slovenia. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 12:04, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
- Redirect to Ministry of Foreign Affairs (Thailand) per nomination. Clara A. Djalim (talk) 10:36, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
- Redirect. Does not meet the notability criteria. --TadejM my talk 12:53, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
- Comment I'm not sure why we would redirect to Ministry of Foreign Affairs (Thailand). If there is no "List of Thai Ambassadors to Laos" or "List of Thai Ambassadors to Austria" then I would just delete without any redirect needed. Uhooep (talk) 17:53, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
- Don't merge/redirect. Not mentioned at target, and it wouldn't be appropriate to do so. --Paul_012 (talk) 05:55, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: There are plenty of news mentions, but virtually all of it is in the context of her official capacity. She was featured in The Cloud's "Talk With Ambassadors" podcast[2], but that's also mostly about her work. --Paul_012 (talk) 03:16, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 21:35, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
India-Latin America relations[edit]
- India-Latin America relations (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Articles on diplomatic relations are supposed to be country specific as long as they concern modern period. This article's title is too broad, inaccurate and whatever is added here can be already found on other articles.Ratnahastin (talk) 05:08, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
- I don't share that understanding of what counts as a legitimate article at all; there are many articles concerning country-to-region relations, such as Africa–India relations, Sino-Latin America relations, etc. Also, I would like to ask which other articles most of the information in this article can be found at. GreekApple123 (talk) 05:40, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
- Africa–India relations is based on historical relations while Sino-Latin America relations shall also require deletion.Ratnahastin (talk) 06:15, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bilateral relations, Politics, Economics, India, and Latin America. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 06:07, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
- Weak keep or Merge the article is well formatted and cited with many references which covers this topic in depth. It does spun around the topic, passes general notability. However if merging is an option then I'd not oppose it merging in Foreign relations of India. Based Kashmiri (talk) 15:38, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
- Keep. The page is well written and has many reliable sources with significant coverage on the India-Latin economic and trade ties and history. Passes WP:GNG. I am also not opposed to Merge to Foreign relations of India. RangersRus (talk) 13:05, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete. Per nom. Duplicative of other articles. No point. Yilloslime (talk) 15:29, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete per nom or Merge into other Indian articles about relations with Latin America
- 48JCL (talk) 13:26, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 07:04, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
Embassy of Italy, Ottawa[edit]
- Embassy of Italy, Ottawa (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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All this article does is confirm it exists with no third party coverage to meet WP:ORG. LibStar (talk) 23:40, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 22:29, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
Leyla Abdullayeva[edit]
- Leyla Abdullayeva (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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- NO GNG. Created for advertising and PR purposes. --Correspondentman (talk) 12:46, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Women, Bilateral relations, Azerbaijan, and France. —a smart kitten[meow] 13:47, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: The other language Wikipedias seem to have a better sourced version of this, with around ten separate sources, however I'm not sure about their quality.
- === Russian language ===
- === Azerbaijani Wikipedia ===
- Testeraccount101 (talk) 13:52, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
- Speedy close, because AFD is made by sock of the banned user. User:Correspondentman is banned in Azerbaijani Wikipedia as a sock of User:Elshad Iman (Elşad İman). Here is the discussion. He (User:Elshadiman) has been banned on English Wikipedia for sockpuppetry. You might check the archive through this page Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Elshadiman/Archive. On top of that he continues to use the same sock accounts in English Wikipedia that he used in azwiki: User:Redaksiya, User:90AA123 and User:Correspondentman, which has only 36 edits, all in AFD. Sock accounts cannot create AFDs. — Toghrul R (t) 06:59, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 22:31, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
Embassy of Italy, Tirana[edit]
- Embassy of Italy, Tirana (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Article is based on 1 primary source and merely confirms it exists. Fails GNG. LibStar (talk) 07:00, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bilateral relations, Albania, and Italy. LibStar (talk) 07:00, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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- Keep. Like many other embassies, this one occupies an architecturally significant building. The corresponding article in the Albanian Wikipedia at sq:Ambasada_Italiane_në_Tiranë, provides some information abut the building's status as a Cultural Monument of Albania that I have added to the English article. Several photos of the embassy are on Commons at commons:Category:Embassy_of_Italy,_Tirana. It is always a good idea to check an article's counterpart in the Wikipedias of other languages before nominating it for deletion. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 08:56, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 11:54, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- I disagree with Eastmain, the fact that other languages have content on a subject does not mean that it is notable. I am not able to read AR and ARZ Wikipedia (I'm not even sure which languages they are without looking it up) but it looks like they may have more sources. I was not able to find any sources with a quick search but one may have to use other languages or look up a different phrase. ✶Quxyz✶ 13:10, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- Keep: Listed cultural monuments will have documentation on file with the corresponding authorities; I see no reason to believe this one wouldn't. I can't read Albanian but some Gsearch and Gtranslate brings up at least a few mentions of this building. Oaktree b (talk) 19:41, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: Here's the listing: https://iktk.gov.al/site/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Vendim-nr.-32-date-07.02.2023-Ambasada-Italiane.pdf Oaktree b (talk) 19:57, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
Aleksandr Surikov (diplomat)[edit]
- Aleksandr Surikov (diplomat) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails GNG and NBIO. Recently deceased Russian diplomat. Sources found in article and BEFORE fail WP:SIRS. Source eval:
Comments | Source |
---|---|
Government obit, fails WP:SIRS, all the normal obit problems plus the Russian government should not be considered a reliable source | 1. www.mid.ru https://www.mid.ru/ru/activity/shots/vnutrivedomstvennye_novosti/nekrologi_pamyati_kolleg/1949977/ . Retrieved 2024-05-13 . |
Government decree, fails WP:IS, does not contain SIGCOV about the subject. | 2. ^ "Decree of the President of the Russian Federation of July 29, 2017 No. 348 “On the Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary of the Russian Federation in the Republic of Mozambique”" . Archived from the original on 2019-01-26 . Retrieved 2017-09-14 . |
Government decree, fails WP:IS, does not contain SIGCOV about the subject. | 3. ^ "Decree of the President of the Russian Federation of February 16, 2018 No. 76 “On the Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary of the Russian Federation in the Kingdom of Swaziland on a part-time basis”" . Archived from the original on 2018-02-16 . Retrieved 2018-02-16 . |
Government obit, fails WP:SIRS, all the normal obit problems plus the Russian government should not be considered a reliable source | 4. ^ www.mid.ru https://www.mid.ru/ru/activity/shots/vnutrivedomstvennye_novosti/nekrologi_pamyati_kolleg/1949977/ . Retrieved 2024-05-13 . |
Obit based on government sources, fails WP:SIRS, all the normal obit problems plus the Russian government should not be considered a reliable source | 5. ^ "Russian Ambassador to Mozambique Died" . TACC (in Russian) . Retrieved 2024-05-13 . |
BEFORE found name mentions and government statements they released, and an interview, nothing meet WP:SIGCOV addressing the subject directly and indepth from independent reliable sources. // Timothy :: talk 02:02, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: First and foremost, lower your tone while nominating the article for deletion. Secondly, government decrees can be used as secondary sources as if you can type the full name in a Russian, many sources will pop up, (in Russian of course), apart from the official government statement. Here's my third point, he is the ambassador to Mozambique, the highest office of any diplomat in office. Would you delete the ambassador of the United States of Mozambique for that reason? Ivan Milenin (talk) 02:56, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Bilateral relations, Africa, and Russia. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:16, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete 3 of the sources are primary. The other is routine coverage of his unfortunate death. Fails WP:BIO. Ambassadors are not inherently notable. LibStar (talk) 03:58, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
- Weak keep I'm leaning to keep, but if if it's drafted... I wouldn't be surprised as well.Ivan Milenin (talk) 05:55, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 02:19, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
Italy–Montenegro relations[edit]
- Italy–Montenegro relations (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG. Nothing here that cannot be covered under Foreign relations of Italy or Foreign relations of Montenegro. Dclemens1971 (talk) 21:09, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bilateral relations, Italy, and Montenegro. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 22:18, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete article contains 2 primary sources. Lacking third party sources to meet GNG. LibStar (talk) 10:58, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
- Keep - there is no criteria that articles (apart from BLPs) have to have third party sources to meet GNG. The notability is not to be judged by the sources in the article at present, but the potential available scope of sources. It's pretty obvious that there is enough material out there to expand the article on the relations between these 2 neigbouring countries. --Soman (talk) 00:52, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
- Not true, please read WP:GNG. "Independent of the subject". It is a basic requirement of GNG to provide third party sources. For an editor who has edited since 2004 you should know this. LibStar (talk) 00:55, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
- and they're not really neighbouring, yes across the sea but no land border. LibStar (talk) 00:55, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
- "it's pretty obvious that there is enough material out there to expand the article " Please list these or it's WP:MUSTBESOURCES. LibStar (talk) 00:58, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
- I'd counter-question is any WP:BEFORE was performed here? In this case it's pretty easy to assume that sources would be available. How about [9], [10], [11], "Italia e il Montenegro , firmato a Cettigne il 28 marzo 1883. È desso il primo accordo che l'Italia stipula con quel principato , ed è il secondo che il Montenegro conchiude con nazioni estere , il primo essendo stato concluso colla ." ([12]), "Nel novembre 1879 , Giuseppe Ottolenghi , delegato italiano nella commissione per la delimitazione nel Montenegro , nella sua relazione al capo dello Stato Maggiore riassume ." ([13]), "[Albania]... Italy, Montenegro and, traditionally, those of Austria, was not a minor problem. This issue, therefore, was destined to alter the relations between Montenegro and Italy, and between Italy and Serbia. Projects of Italian occupation..." ([14]), etc, etc. --Soman (talk) 01:23, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you for finding third party sources which is a requirement of GNG. LibStar (talk) 01:33, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
- @LibStar @Soman With the exception of link 1 above (and link 2, which is a dead link), the sources provided refer to historical episodes already covered in detail in other articles. See Italian governorate of Montenegro, Italy–Yugoslavia relations. Again, with the exception of link 1, the sources are not about the relationship between Italy and the current post-Serbian state of Montenegro. My BEFORE search did not turn up enough significant coverage of post-2006 relations, which means that WP:NOPAGE should apply to avoid creating a content fork with Italian governorate of Montenegro or Italy–Yugoslavia relations. Dclemens1971 (talk) 02:19, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks Dclemens, from your analysis of sources, I stand by my delete !vote. I agree that coverage should be about the current post-Serbian state of Montenegro. LibStar (talk) 02:28, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
- That's not an approach consistent with how other bilateral relations articles are delimited. Look at Russia–United Kingdom relations, China–India relations, Germany–Italy relations, and so forth. At no point does this article have to relate to post 2006 material only. --Soman (talk) 11:06, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
- The Germany/Italy article starts only with the establishment of modern unified Italy. It's not a history of how Prussia interacted with the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies. Likewise, the Italy/Montenegro article starts with the first establishment of a sovereign Montenegrin state that can engage in foreign relations... in 2006. Dclemens1971 (talk) 11:57, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
- Again, let's not limit AfD discussions to the current contents of an article. The discussion should relate to the potential scope of how an article can evolve. There are difficult cases and grey areas, but taking the timeline back to 1800s (unification of Italy and Prinicipality/Kingdom of Montenegro) makes perfect sense to start in this case. It is in line with how articles on Russian bilateral relations link back to more or less same period. --Soman (talk) 23:32, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
- The Germany/Italy article starts only with the establishment of modern unified Italy. It's not a history of how Prussia interacted with the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies. Likewise, the Italy/Montenegro article starts with the first establishment of a sovereign Montenegrin state that can engage in foreign relations... in 2006. Dclemens1971 (talk) 11:57, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
- That's not an approach consistent with how other bilateral relations articles are delimited. Look at Russia–United Kingdom relations, China–India relations, Germany–Italy relations, and so forth. At no point does this article have to relate to post 2006 material only. --Soman (talk) 11:06, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks Dclemens, from your analysis of sources, I stand by my delete !vote. I agree that coverage should be about the current post-Serbian state of Montenegro. LibStar (talk) 02:28, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
- @LibStar @Soman With the exception of link 1 above (and link 2, which is a dead link), the sources provided refer to historical episodes already covered in detail in other articles. See Italian governorate of Montenegro, Italy–Yugoslavia relations. Again, with the exception of link 1, the sources are not about the relationship between Italy and the current post-Serbian state of Montenegro. My BEFORE search did not turn up enough significant coverage of post-2006 relations, which means that WP:NOPAGE should apply to avoid creating a content fork with Italian governorate of Montenegro or Italy–Yugoslavia relations. Dclemens1971 (talk) 02:19, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you for finding third party sources which is a requirement of GNG. LibStar (talk) 01:33, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
- I'd counter-question is any WP:BEFORE was performed here? In this case it's pretty easy to assume that sources would be available. How about [9], [10], [11], "Italia e il Montenegro , firmato a Cettigne il 28 marzo 1883. È desso il primo accordo che l'Italia stipula con quel principato , ed è il secondo che il Montenegro conchiude con nazioni estere , il primo essendo stato concluso colla ." ([12]), "Nel novembre 1879 , Giuseppe Ottolenghi , delegato italiano nella commissione per la delimitazione nel Montenegro , nella sua relazione al capo dello Stato Maggiore riassume ." ([13]), "[Albania]... Italy, Montenegro and, traditionally, those of Austria, was not a minor problem. This issue, therefore, was destined to alter the relations between Montenegro and Italy, and between Italy and Serbia. Projects of Italian occupation..." ([14]), etc, etc. --Soman (talk) 01:23, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
- "it's pretty obvious that there is enough material out there to expand the article " Please list these or it's WP:MUSTBESOURCES. LibStar (talk) 00:58, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
- and they're not really neighbouring, yes across the sea but no land border. LibStar (talk) 00:55, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
- Not true, please read WP:GNG. "Independent of the subject". It is a basic requirement of GNG to provide third party sources. For an editor who has edited since 2004 you should know this. LibStar (talk) 00:55, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris talk! 09:53, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
- Keep. As there was a Montenegro before the current state became independent in 2006, we don't need to limit this article to post-2006 events. Note, for example, that Italy occupied Montenegro from 1941 to 1943; see Italian governorate of Montenegro. That said, I hope that additional content and sources are added to this article. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 16:27, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
- Keep. There's not much to it now, but this is a stub that has a reasonable chance to grow. I tend to think that two countries this close to each other are going to have active relations which in turn will receive WP:SIGCOV. A cursory google search confirms this. Yilloslime (talk) 20:14, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
- Comment - per Authorities in Exile Claiming to be ‘Governments’: Profiles', Recognition of Governments in International Law: With Particular Reference to Governments in Exile (2001; online edn, Oxford Academic), Italy continued diplomatic relations with the Montenegrin government-in-exile up to September 1921, seemingly the last country to withdraw diplomatic links with the Montenegro govt in exile. --Soman (talk) 23:29, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Otherwise liable to be closed "no consensus."
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Arbitrarily0 (talk) 21:01, 26 May 2024 (UTC)