Category talk:Biography articles without living parameter

Status
As of March 25, 2009 this category contains 62,902 articles and 4,068 of those are also disambiguation pages and ~200 are lists. 3,573 articles contain "(band)" in their title. This leaves us with ~55,000 articles. We need an estimate of how many of the remaining articles are about bands in total. -- Magioladitis (talk) 21:27, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

As of April 11, 2009 this category contains 57,094 articles and 4,088 of those are also disambiguation pages and ~200 are lists. 3,563 articles contain "(band)" in their title. This leaves us with ~49,500 articles. -- Magioladitis (talk) 16:16, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

As of April 22, 2009 this category contains 47,137 articles and 4,096 of those are also disambiguation pages and ~200 are lists. This leaves us with ~43,000 articles. -- Magioladitis (talk) 09:28, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

As of June 1, 2009 this category contains 43,071 articles and ~200 are lists. (We started excluding Dab and NA class articles). -- Magioladitis (talk) 16:32, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

As of June 16, 2009 this category contains 36,905 articles. (Partial work in musical groups done). Category is still loading. -- Magioladitis (talk) 23:41, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

As of July 4, 2009 this category contains 26,868 articles. (Musical groups dealt). Category is probably still loading. I expect 1% of the remaining articles to be in redirects so the banners have to be removed. The remaining article lack any yob/yob/century category. We have first add relevant categories in the article space before keep going. With AWB's new feature to add Human categories we expect to can manage 10%. -- Magioladitis (talk) 19:15, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

As of July 26, 2009 this category contains 22,400 articles. Number may increase in the next days because a bot is adding biography banners to stubs. In August I'll probably won't be running Yobot. -- Magioladitis (talk) 10:02, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

As of October 25, 2009 this category contains 20,328 articles. The number has been stabilised between 20-22k the last months. -- Magioladitis (talk) 21:59, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

As of November 26, 2009 this category contains 18,586 articles. -- Magioladitis (talk) 01:05, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

As of December 28, 2009 this category contains 17,310 articles. -- Magioladitis (talk) 01:19, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

As of January 23, 2010 this category contains 14,771 articles. The last two days I used AWB to add birth/death categories to the corresponding articles. More than 2,000 were fixed. I discovered many cases with banners in talk pages of redirects. There is still some work to be done in this direction. -- Magioladitis (talk) 14:55, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

As of February 23, 2010 this category contains 13,148 articles. I cleaned all banners in talk pages of redirects. Daily tagging to recently created BLPs reduced the number of newcomers on this category. -- Magioladitis (talk) 00:14, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

As of March 16, 2010 this category contains 11,562 articles. A bot now automatically adds tags to talk pages of recently created BLPs. I won't be running Yobot for the rest of March. -- Magioladitis (talk) 05:17, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

As of April 24, 2010 this category contains 11,156 articles. -- Magioladitis (talk) 20:32, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

As of May 8, 2010 this category contains 22,142 articles. SmackBot added banners to stubs in the last days and Yobot followed to add living parameters to some of them. -- Magioladitis (talk) 07:38, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

As of June 23, 2010 this category contains 18,327 articles. -- Magioladitis (talk) 05:04, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

As of August 30, 2010 this category contains 14,305 articles. -- Magioladitis (talk) 08:11, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

As of October 16, 2010 this category contains 9,874 articles. -- Magioladitis (talk) 19:36, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

As of November 17, 2010 this category contains 8,844 articles. -- Magioladitis (talk) 01:31, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

As of December 31, 2010 this category contains 7,272 articles. -- Magioladitis (talk) 01:41, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

As of February 1, 2011 this category contains 6,670 articles. Wikipedia backlog drive started. I hope this will reduce the backlog for good. -- Magioladitis (talk) 01:58, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

As of February 16, 2011 this category contains no articles. Wikipedia backlog drive worked!! A great thanks to everybody for this effort. Anyone who thinks they deserve a barnstar please contact me :) I'll award it to them. -- Magioladitis (talk) 23:24, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * This backlog has started up again, and I think that it may need some help with people working on it. As of now, there are 10,308 articles in this category, and it's been increasing very fast with biography project tagging being added to untagged bios by a bot... - Fim atic  (talk &#124; contribs) 03:53, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

Would still love to help
The category was backlogged yesterday (with around 75-100 items, there's no way I would have been able to do it if it had thousands of items like before) but I cleared it out. I'll try to keep an eye on the category and clear it out from time to time, but if for some reason I forget and it gets backlogged again, please send me a quick message and I'd love to help further. Thanks. - SudoGhost&trade; 11:53, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Sudden increase in articles here
Yesterday, a bot added to around 1,500 biography talk pages without the living parameter in any of them, so the amount of articles here went from 700 to 2000. I'll start helping on this again. -Fim atic  (talk &#124; contribs) 19:41, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Just got 113 done.  -Fim atic   (talk &#124; contribs) 20:17, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Bands
What does the "living" parameter mean for a band? When is it supposed to be set "yes"? What does the "living" parameter mean for a list of, say, barons? A Roman gens? A biographical book about a person? Without clarification of these points, there may always be a huge backlog in this category. --Wtshymanski (talk) 16:17, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * If at least one member of the band is alive, then it it "yes" (not Yes ). Same for the barons.  If the book is about a living person or people, to the extent that WP:BLP is an issue, then it is "yes".  But I wouldn't worry too much about this last, if the main subject is dead.  All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 22:30, 30 October 2016 (UTC).

Wikidata
Is this type of flag something that may be best tracked by Wikidata instead of enwp? – czar   08:24, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Maybe. It is supposed to be more subtle than a living-or-dead subject divide, but I'm not sure anyone has the time to make these fine distinctions.  WP:BLP applies everywhere, after all.  All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 21:51, 21 November 2016 (UTC).

Status 2016
As of 10/28/2016, 9:39 PM (CST), this backlog's "A" section is completely cleared. Beginning to wonder if a bot can be programmed to do this. --Non multa,sed Vicipaedia 02:47, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
 * As of 10/30/2016, 4:54 PM (CST), this backlog's "B" section is completely cleared. Rich Farmbrough has also begun helping me reduce this backlog via AWB (I have been doing it by hand, painfully slowly). --Non multa,sed Vicipaedia 21:56, 30 October 2016 (UTC) (Vami)
 * As of 10/31/2016 6:17 PM (CST), this backlog's "C" section has been c-sectioned. --Non multa,sed Vicipaedia 23:18, 31 October 2016 (UTC) (Vami)
 * As of 11/1/2016 5:39 PM (CST), this backlog's "D" section has been eliminated. Major thanks to Rich Farmborough for neutralizing a further 6000~ pages from the backlog. See below. --Non multa,sed Vicipaedia 22:41, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
 * As of 11/3/2016, sections "A," "B," "C," "D," "E," "F," "G," are all clear again. -- Vami _IV✠  05:33, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Section "H" is clear as of 10:39 (CST) 11/3/2016. Hopefully, I can keep up with all the 1000 projects popping up (seriously guys just use the damn template when you write a new bio). -- Vami _IV✠  15:40, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I have done the easiest: those with Category:Living people or Category: deaths on the article (but not both).  There are 1813 left.  I will try to winnow these down a little more. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 21:21, 31 October 2016 (UTC).


 * Sections "M", "N", "O", and "Q" are clear.-- Vami _IV✠  05:11, 5 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Many thanks! The addition of writing years of death on the pages did not occur to me however (fuck). --Non multa,sed Vicipaedia 23:18, 31 October 2016 (UTC) (Vami)
 * Managed a few more here and there. But we do need a bot to help.   Will make a BRFA.  All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 22:23, 5 November 2016 (UTC).


 * I've refined my methods to make this a little easier. I will try to catch as many of the "easy" ones as I can on a daily basis.  All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 21:49, 21 November 2016 (UTC).

Backlog has, after being reduced to 170+ pages, is now buried in over 700 pages. May abandon effort for time being. In the meanwhile, I'll be perpetually removing snow pages. -- Vami _IV✠  16:10, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Status 2017
As of 1/23/2017, this backlog has been reduced to a single page -- Vami _IV✠  16:06, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

As of 1/27/2017, this backlog has been reduced to 20 articles. – Vami _IV✠  16:39, 27 January 2017 (UTC)
 * THE BACKLOG IS FINALLY EMPTY 1/27/17 – Vami _IV✠  21:13, 27 January 2017 (UTC)

Perfect. -- Magioladitis (talk) 18:08, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

Interacting tags
Items with the Wiki markup {{WPBS|blp=yes|1= show up on this backlog list, even though they display the "living persons" banner on the talk page. Does this markup do something other than what happens with the living=yes parameter in the various "biography" templates? --Wtshymanski (talk) 00:16, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
 * From looking at the code for {{tl|WikiProject banner shell}} and {{tl|WikiProject Biography}}, they both fundamentally do the same thing, that is to display {{tl|BLP}}, {{tl|BLP others}}, and/or {{tl|Active politician}} when the appropriate parameters are provided. When the banner shell is used, the transclusion wikitext for the enclosed banner is supplied by the editor, rather than the banner shell transcluding the banner within the template code itself. This means that it's not possible for the banner shell to alter the template call, to automatically pass living=yes to the enclosed banner, and thus why both templates need to have the parameters for the living status of a person supplied.  Harryboyles  08:29, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Could whatever magic spell that generates this list look for "living" parameters in the shell template? Although as long as this backlog is dow to a couple hundred entries, I suppose it's not going to add too much to manual work.--Wtshymanski (talk) 14:59, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
 * It would be nice if the logic that generates this list also detected a BLP template on the talk page. --Wtshymanski (talk) 01:54, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

My least favorite items that regularly appear on this list
Maybe the "notability" broom would sweep away some of these? Though on our hell-bent quest for 10,000,000 articles, I suppose we can't be too choosy about what gets an article. --Wtshymanski (talk) 01:23, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Lists - yes, some guidance above, but I always think a "list of names" is an odd thing to have in a "biography" project. And some of these lists are getting pretty darn obscure...rulers of unpronounceable antique kingdoms, members of legislatures, etc.
 * Women baseball players of the 1940's and 1950's - many of these ladies will live forever, because they are so obscure we will never find an obituary to confirm their passing. Plus the entries are so sketchy, some of them even lack first names. At least the various volleyball team members who've appeared at one tournament generally have a birth date and can be presumed still alive if it's within the last 100 years, though again, not a lot of press for some of these names.
 * Footballers from the first half of the 20th C - could still be living, but can't tell...someone who was a young adult in 1940 could theoretically be telling yarns about his career 80 years later, though it begins to strain probability.
 * Biographies of fiercely named Indian politicians who evidently go only by their initials...maybe that's the style over there, but it makes it very difficult to see if they still live.
 * Biographies that say "so and so *WAS* a such and such" - if you know so-and-so is dead, please say so! Dates would be nice!
 * Barber shop quartets! --Wtshymanski (talk) 18:32, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
 * , how did you deal with these sorts of cases? In general, the most confusing are cases where the date of birth isn't even given, we only have a date when they did something. For example Yusra did some archaeology in 1929. As the article states, she's completely untraceable. If she was 18 in 1929, she'd be 106 now. Do we just assume living=yes? If so, until when? --LukeSurlt c 15:38, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

Here's how I handled those: Personally, I do think the notability broom would sweep these away as there are indeed much more deserving subjects to have articles on. However, why put the work in on an article if only to delete it?
 * Lists: Use the |blpo=y parameter. This is the abbreviation for "biography of living person omission," removing the list/talk page from listings for living/dead persons.
 * Women baseball players: Assume dead.
 * Ancient Footballers: Assume dead.
 * Indian politicians: Indian names put the fear of God in me. I'd say to just use their whole name in the |listas=
 * "Was": If it says [nombre] was such and such, they are probably dead. Any time I've personally seen a "was" from retirement in my 10,000+ edits on talk pages was during the Women in Red contest in November 2017.
 * BSQ: Oh God, Barber Shop Quartets. Assume dead, and always use |blpo=y.

@ If age was 80+, then I universally assumed the person was dead unless there was some evidence to the contrary (in my 10k+ edits, there never was b/c stubs).

X – Vami _IV✠  17:58, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

Status as of 2018
The current status of the category is that it is now empty! Dreamy Jazz (talk) 10:41, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Wonderful! Thanks for taking the bull by the horns, cutting the Gordian knot, etc., etc. That "omissions" tag will be very helpful. --Wtshymanski (talk) 14:18, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
 * It is getting much more rare for even a new user to tag without living, so this category should be mostly empty from now on. Dreamy Jazz 🎷 talk to me &#124; my contributions 12:06, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Thankfully it's been kept mostly empty by a few watchful editors; it's rare to see more than 10 entries at a time in the category, which is a far cry from when we had 10,000+ entries and had to whittle them down. I know this talk page doesn't get much activity but if you're seeing this and you help keep the category empty, your work is not unnoticed nor unappreciated. - Aoidh (talk) 05:33, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

possible articles this is appropriate for
I am completely confused. Should this be used at 11th Panchen Lama controversy and Karmapa controversy, or not? Thanks for any help. I'm clearly too stupid to understand what this cat is for. —valereee (talk) 22:49, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
 * No. This is for biographical articles (articles where the subject is a person, or groups of persons). It is automatically assigned when the WikiProject Biography box on the talk page does not have a "living" parameter. This is a maintenance category to flag missing information for editors. It is not intended to give information to readers regarding persons whose status is unclear. You should not add this category to articles. --LukeSurlt c 08:19, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
 * this is a maintenance category for talk pages and the category is automatically added by WikiProject Biography. It is added if the living parameter is empty or missing (or not a variation of yes or no). It should never be added manually to any page (including talk pages). Dreamy Jazz talk to me &#124; my contributions 10:18, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

Blank or invalid uses of the living parameter
To editors who patrol this category, how should we treat cases where living is blank or something like ? or unknown. Should these trigger the category or not? &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 10:17, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
 * In my view, if living parameters are blank, then it's the same as if the living parameter wasn't present at all and this category should be added. For where living value is 'unknown' or similar, then the section of the BLP policy concerning possibly dead people applies - WP:BDP. If I understand correctly, you'd need to use the estimated age to determine if BLP applies (and I don't think you could properly automate this from the talk page content alone). So probably better for those pages to go in the category you recently created: Category:Pages using WikiProject banner shell with invalid parameters - there is a living parameter, but the value isn't an accepted one and there needs to be a yes/no decision made by an editor.  Harryboyles  09:37, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Okay I will try to amend the code so that blank parameters are tracked as missing &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:13, 13 March 2024 (UTC)