Category talk:Classical composers

Composer = Classical composer
Including non-Classical era classical composers on "Category:Classical composers" is redundant. Common practice, in and out of wikipedia, is that "composer" = "classical composer". "Category:Classical composers" should include only Classical era composers, or subcategories such as "Category:20th_century_composers" and "Category:Romantic composers". Hyacinth 23:28, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure what this category really intends. Is it:  "composers of classical music, i.e. that stuff that isn't pop music, of European tradition, which includes Medieval, Renaissance, Baroque, Classical, Romantic, 20th century, ..."  If it is, does EVERY composer go in this category?  If only SOME composers go in the category, are we going to try to determine who is "canonical" and who isn't?  (I sure don't want to try to do that one!  That's one big can-o-worms).  What does anyone think?  Antandrus 23:37, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * This Category could include ONLY Classical Era composers or ALL classical composers.
 * If this Category were to include only Classical Era composers, then it would be a subcategory of "Category:Composers" (which as a supercategory could include only classical or both popular and classical composers).
 * If this Category were to include all classical composers than it would move "Category:Composers" up to a supercategory that would include popular and classical composers such as "Category:Songwriters". Subcategories of this category would then include everything which is currently a subcategory of "Category:Composers".
 * Hyacinth 00:06, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Category:Composers refers to all composers in general, while Category:Classical composers refers specifically to composers of classical music, despite the musical period. That's why I developed Category:Classical era composers. This obviously refers to the classical era specifically. And there are so many classical music composers that it's hard to do them all, but hopefully I can get everyone in. Marcus2 10:50, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the clarification Marcus. Antandrus 14:25, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)

When is a composer a "classical" composer - the silly test.
I just discovered something fascinating. I know it's gonna sound silly, but it's a kind of test to distinguish classical composers from composers in general:


 * Someone becomes a classical composer when over 50% of the published recordings/albums of this composer mention the birth date (between brackets, behind the name) of this composer on the sleeve/cover.

The "traditional forms" that is now in the category definition of this category is still so intangible: is a song a traditional form? What is the definition of a traditional form?

My new proposed definition above seems to work for all composers of whom I have more than two albums in my posession (I have over a 1000 CD's, and a few 100 33RPM records, some 95% of them classical music), even for the "20th century classical composers" of the last half of that century. But one composer in the traditional sense - sorry Hyacinth, now it becomes completely silly, I can't help it, but its absolutely, truly genuine - fails the "classical" test in this sense: Erik Satie: I have 5 albums of this composer, by 4 different record companies. Only 2 of these albums mention the birth date of Erik Satie: one on the back of the cover, one only in the booklet.

My tentative conclusion: even if the absolute final definition of classical music is still somewhat out of reach (discussed amongst others also with Opus 33), at least I found a workable way for distinguishing who could go in the classical composers category, and who would not...

--Francis Schonken 20:14, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * No offense. Amazing, actually. This test isn't so silly, but cuts to the heart of the popular/classical dichotomy. Hyacinth 00:27, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Categorization
I've been categorizing the classical composers by era and nationality and removing this cat -- i.e., following the guidelines on Categorization for not having an article in both a category and its subcat.

I started a bit of discussion on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Composers regarding composer categorization. Objections/thoughts/etc. encouraged -- I'm tempted to do the whole list now but I'd rather not end up reverting myself 200 times amidst public outcry. :-) Mindspillage (spill your mind?) 01:54, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * For lack of public outcry, I'm going to go ahead and start doing this with the rest. Mindspillage (spill your mind?) 05:00, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Early music
I see there are no entries in the Early Music composers subcat, and it should eliminated. Early music is a catchall phrase for Medieval, Renaissance, and Baroque, and composers are better categorized in those slots. --Wahoofive 00:55, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Category:Women classical composers
The following is FYI and was moved from my personal talk page. -- Beland 4 July 2005 19:03 (UTC)

Greetings! I see you recently used Pearle to merge this category after its CfD listing. While I don't have any problems with its deletion, merging with Category:Classical composers means that a category intended to be a parent only to other categories is now populated with names. (I didn't notice until things on my watchlist changed; don't know why I wasn't watching the women composers category: oversight on my part!) All of the categorized female composers should already belong to its subcategories by era and nationality. Would there be any problem with using the bot to just remove Category:Classical composers from these articles entirely? Thanks, Mindspillage (spill yours?) 14:10, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * FYI, Mindspillage added the same to my talk page because I was the admin who closed the discussion. As I said there, I don't have a problem with her suggestion.  --Kbdank71 17:43, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Oops. Pearle is now working on fixing this now. -- Beland 4 July 2005 19:03 (UTC)

We should provide a listing by era/time, rather than alphabetically for the subcategories. I'm not sure how to make that happen. Could someone more versed in the ways of Categories do so? Thanks.--Thalia42 08:54, 15 June 2006 (UTC)