Category talk:User en-N

How can we encourage more users to use the language tags? I'm a newish user and am not well acquainted with all the announcements pages and so on. Shane Smith 20:31, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Language tags

 * (added heading afterwords --Tunheim 08:43, 16 January 2007 (UTC))
 * I don't understand how they work. I stumbled upon this page after reading another person's profile. I'd like to be pointed to a guide to language tages. Please leave a note on my talk page if you can help. Thanks. --Westendgirl 04:32, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

How does one put a tag on?--1 black hand °T° 17:26, 15 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Hi. You can add the "native speaker of English" tag by adding    to your user page.  Complete instructions are available at Babel, but I will add them to this page as well.  -- Rachel 17:42, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Okay so let me know some up dates I have not had my phone on 165.166.159.90 (talk) 18:48, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

I REALLY DONT UNDERSTAND WHAT MEANS ALL THIS.I AM JUST LIKE KNOW SAME ABOUT BRILHANT SINGER PIET ARION. Thank you. Helena Spirin WHITINGTON Whitington16 (talk) 03:54, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

3
I'm somewhat concerned about Category:User en-3, the text of which is "These users are able to contribute with an advanced level of English". It's the third of four grades for non-native English speakers, but the wording strongly suggests that it's even better' than Category:User en-4 and Category:User en-N. It should be made explicit that, despite being advanced, the user is still not a native English speaker. -Ashley Pomeroy 15:41, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

You should also take a look at Category:User en-5. I'm not certain what "professional level" implies. Is that the skill level of a professional, such as a doctor or lawyer, or is the skill level of someone who specialises in English, such as an editor? David Corbett 23:45, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Like a native speaker?
My native language is not English, but having grown up in Australia, I use English like a native speaker. I use this particular tag, but it's not entirely clear whether it's for people whose native tongue is English, or those with competencies near that of a native speaker. What is the actual role of this tag? Should the wording be changed? 02:46, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Being Irish, I was thinking the same thing.--Danny Invincible 22:57, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

One +cat only
We only need to put Native Users in the EN-N +cat and then add the EN +cat to the bottom of EN-N +cat. Thanks SirIsaacBrock

Some details about how language tag categories work?
I don't understand what the N does. vs. The first tag is in use at the page Category:User_en-N --Tunheim 08:47, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
 * It just sorts the entry by "N" rather than "User en-N". Rich Farmbrough, 20:31, 16 March 2012 (UTC).

Better level?
Why does the en-N say that the next better level is en-5, while the en-5 article says that en-N is better? It seems logical that en-N is better, but that's just me. C0N6R355 20:36, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I fixed it. Taric25 03:51, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Next worse level?
A little vandalism I guess.Tourskin 18:13, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Some concensus needed
Not just here, but for all language categories. I think it should be based on functional competency. I also believe the Native category should be removed from the scale - I know non-native speakers who are embarrasingly more fluent and with a greater vocabulary than native speakers.

If the IELTS scale, which uses nine bands, is used as a template, we could define language fluency according to these requirements

en-1 = upto level 3 ("extremely limited user - Conveys and understands only general meaning in very familiar situations. Frequent breakdowns in communication occur."). If you think this is too generous for somebody claiming some fluency we can go up to level 4 ("limited user - Basic competence is limited to familiar situations. Has frequent problems in use of complex language.")

en-2 = upto level 5 ("modest user - Has partial command of the language, coping with overall meaning in most situations, though is likely to make many mistakes. Should be able to handle basic communication in own field.").

en-3 = upto level 7 ("good user - Has operational command of the language, though with occasional inaccuracies, inappropriacies and misunderstandings in some situations. Generally handles complex language well and understands detailed reasoning.").

en-4 up to level 9 ("expert user - Has fully operational command of the language: appropriate, accurate and fluent with complete understanding."

any comments?Kransky 02:29, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Like a native speaker
What is the meaning of "a native speaker of (English)"? Is it related to the phrase "speaks (e.g. French) like a native" which I presume means a native of France or someone born there. If Wikipedia uses the words "a native speaker of (English)" in a special way shouldn't it define them? The subject was raised above more than a decade ago but ignored.

Google defines native as "a person born in a specified place or associated with a place by birth, whether subsequently resident there or not." What is a native speaker? Eddaido (talk) 02:56, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Not sure what you are actually asking. The Babel templates on Wikipedia are for self-reporting language proficiency, there is no requirement that everyone reports precisely what languages they know or that there are objective quantifiable ways to measure proficiency. A native language is presumed to mean first language, and therefore a native speaker is someone who speaks a language as a first language or on the same level. —Ynhockey (Talk) 10:49, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the link to the article where it is effectively defined for Wikipedia's purposes which is obviously sufficient for Wikipedia. I've never been aware of the concept of being native to a language before. Thanks, Eddaido (talk) 11:14, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I've just visited your user page and I now realise you will not see the oddity / absurdity of the description — not being "a native speaker of English" yourself. Eddaido (talk) 11:17, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
 * That's just the thing, it's a self-reported level of proficiency. I lived in an English-speaking country at a young age, and therefore feel that my English is on the level of a native speaker (including nuance). In the past I listed myself as en-4 but thought it would be silly to list another language as the native one and English as non-native, because I speak/understand three languages on about the same level. I was lucky (or unlucky) enough to live in three countries with three different languages before the age of 13, and wouldn't be surprised if others who did the same would list three native languages—as IMO they should. Again though, it's self-reported, you choose what Babel infoboxes to use for yourself. —Ynhockey (Talk) 07:00, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
 * You don't say which English-speaking country you lived in but are you unaware of the strangeness of the description "a native speaker of English"? Eddaido (talk) 07:18, 6 December 2018 (UTC)