Draft talk:2023 Stenungsund landslide

Help requested with translation and editing of article about quick clay landslide in Sweden
01:27, 7 July 2024 review of submission by 82.173.160.29 Lafc username 82.173.160.29 time 01:27, 7 July 2024 draft=Landslide_at_Stenungsund_junction

Landslides are a fascinating subject and Wikipedia even has a long list of landslides, but it seems that if there's no English text available, the landslide in question is considered to not have happened, eg. ignored by scientists.

I just spent several hours to translate

https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordskredet_vid_Stenungsundsmotet

into

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Draft:Landslide_at_Stenungsund_junction&action=history

and I added 15 references, but sure enough, in stead of helping me to turn my draft into something worth publishing, somebody is trying to put my work on fire.

Who can please help to get this translation job finished? Help is not we destroy your work, so you can start all over again or Bring a lawyer to defend your attempt at helping Wikipedia I give up here 82.173.160.29 (talk) 01:27, 7 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Hi IP editor! I don't see anyone trying to "put your work on fire" - one editor did remove a stray weblink, but then promptly reverted themselves. All 15 references seem to still be there. Your draft has been declined for not having suitable references - is that what's upsetting you? If that's not it, could you try explaining to us?
 * Could I also very strongly suggest you not consider bringing lawyers into the process - we take legal threats very seriously, and you may be blocked if you say that you are intending to consult a lawyer over the matter. Using this page will be a much faster and more effective strategy to get your draft published, if you can find good sources! The sources can be online or offline, and can be in any language, but please keep in mind that English Wikipedia has some of the strictest referencing requirements to prove something is notable. If you are unsure about why your references were not considered suitable, I would be happy to go through them with you. Drmies is a very experienced reviewer, so there will be a reason the draft was declined this time. If you implement their feedback, your draft may well be approved next time. StartGrammarTime (talk) 04:48, 7 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Hello, StartGrammarTime! Please allow me to clarify that "Bring a lawyer" was not to be taken literally. This was rather a sarcastic joke, as to express my frustration that several hours of work are just swiped off the table, for reasons I don't understand. Please read my defense below, written after a short night of sleep.
 * It is not like quick clay landslides are a minor issue in Norway and Sweden. Such landslides have caused disasters in the past, claiming dozens of lives. Stenungsund had a narrow escape here, with no fatal victims. If the landslide would have pushed a little further, it would have taken down houses with sleeping inhabitants in them. The question about what caused the landslide is halfway being answered, but further research may cause the Stenungsund landslide to be in the Swedish newspapers again, maybe a couple of times.
 * One should also consider that E6 motorway is the main connection between Norway and Sweden. It's like you cut off I95 on the American east coast. The Swedish king would not have showed up at the reopening of a local village road. To claim that the cutting off of such an important road, with a detour that lasted almost 9 months and caused a great disturbance in local villages, would be just quoting your local village newspaper is a thing that I fail to understand.
 * Please beware that questions about how long this E6 motorway will last until the next landslide strikes are still open; There seems to be on ongoing minor scandal about missing geological research that should have been performed before even building the E6 motorway. Many sources are in Swedish. It could have been easy to swamp this article with 20 more references, from newspapers that do have serious reputations inside Sweden, but I deliberately chose to quote mostly English language sources, with an exception for Swedish if that source had pictures of video that is very telling for the story.
 * This landslide may not have been in The Guardian in London, or in The Washington Post, but it was noticed by CNN, also an American news chain with a reputation. If making it into The Guardian in London, or into The Washington Post were to be the criteria for being a notable event, we could delete half of the articles in Wikipedia. I think I have even seen an article in Wikipedia's policy, that we should all work together to avoid that Wikipedia becomes a project with a perspective centered around one single country, as Wikipedia is a worldwide project. This is what I find so valuable about Wikipedia: Here I am, living my life in Europe, but whenever I am curious enough to look something up that is far outside my daily life, Wikipedia is the treasury that has it all, even if many articles seem not very notable to me.
 * I don't understand what is expected from me. I will definitely not invest more time in an article that gets refused anyway. I still think that I have laid the foundations for an article that needs some editing and has the potential to meet all of Wikipedia's criteria, but I have a life outside of Wikipedia and will not waste any more energy. Wikipedia is said to be a community project, but all that I see happening is people being strongly discouraged to move a finger to contribute, because there will always be some editor, well respected within his or her own small circle, to take down any effort to contribute. If they cannot find valid reasons to do that, they will lure you into an edit war and ban you from Wikipedia, as if that would make me cry. If you feel like it, go ahead and ban my IP for life, in all languages that I have edited in. It would save me tons of time!
 * Hereby I will put my "baby" in a crib and let the river decide if the baby will float or drown. Anyone feeling tempted to edit my article about the landslide at Stenungsund junction, please go ahead. I don't care if my IP is registered to reflect the time I invested. I would just be delighted if this article would get it's translation from Swedish into English, in any sort of form. You might even argue that an English version could be much shorter than what I had written so far, because some details are not as relevant to the outside world, as they are for people in Sweden. That does not mean that one could convince me that a quick clay landslide that has been a revolving issue in Swedish newspapers over the last 8½ months is not an event notable enough to be mentioned on Wikipedia in some form. There is a red link in the list of landslides on Wikipedia. I hope somebody will make that link turn blue! 82.173.160.29 (talk) 09:32, 7 July 2024 (UTC)


 * I have some somewhat good news for you. Immediately upon searching for some sources, I notice that this article could be expanded. There was an investigation into the causes of it, which found that ...the landslide had been triggered by a nearby construction site where too much excavated material had been piled up, putting excessive strain on the ground below.
 * This lead to criminal charges against three people. This could definitely expand the article, and can lead to further sources later down the line when the case against them concludes.
 * To actually get back into the swing of things on Wikipedia and push myself to work on cutting down my to-do list, I'll help you to improve the article. CommissarDoggoTalk?  12:06, 7 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Thank you/tack så mycke, Commissar Doggo! :-) Your contribution to my draft article is the sort of help I was hoping for. I was aware about a criminal investigation going on, but my knowledge of Swedish language is rather passive. I do agree that this needs further research. I just wonder whenever this article is ready enough to remove it's draft-status. Am I the only one who can request publishing? I feel that not being logged in triggers a defautl "I don't trust IP users"-like reaction. What should I do next? 82.173.160.29 (talk) 13:51, 7 July 2024 (UTC)


 * You aren't the only one who can request publishing. I could just as easily request it now, however that's not going to happen as it's not quite ready, but with improvements and extended coverage it can definitely turn out alright.
 * As for IP users, while some people do show animosity towards IP/new users at times, IP users are people too and the large majority of users don't bite the newcomers.
 * That being said there are numerous benefits to making an account, which can be found here. It's entirely personal choice. CommissarDoggoTalk?  14:01, 7 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Thanks again for your help, CommissarDoggo! To avoid any edit conflicts, let me take a step back and wait and see what your good work can do to improve my draft article. You are definitely heading into the right direction! I wonder what more you are hiding in your sleeve.
 * You've asked for a citation. Let me admit that I have been a bit lazy in translating the Swedish article, assuming that they had checked their information. Well, assumption is the mother of all f*ck-ups, so we may need to double check what the Swedish author has written.
 * Please take a look at this weblink that refers to an article in Göteborgs Posten, titled Skredet på E6 varade i nästan en minut (https://www.gp.se/1.110855805), which I would translate as Landslide on E6 lasted almost 1 minute (without checking any dictionary)
 * Now closely watch what happens if we go back to that same article: Göteborgs Posten has updated their article and the claim that the landslide lasted one minute can no longer be covered with the reference in the Swedish article. I would assume that this error was made in good faith.
 * I have just sent an e-mail to the Swedish National Seismic Network at the University of Uppsala, with a request for access to the seismic data of the Tjörn measuring station for the 23rd of September 2023. I just hope that nobody will claim that I did not try to get my facts straight! ;-)
 * One last question to CommissarDoggo: Can I assume that you don't read Swedish? Do you know if it's possible to create language links between the original article in Swedish called Jordskredet vid Stenungsundsmotet and the draft article that we are now working on? Or is that too soon? 82.173.160.29 (talk) 15:45, 7 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Hopefully that request is well received, it'd be good to have a citation. You're correct to assume I don't know a lick of Swedish, and I'm fairly certain that you cannot link two articles until they're both out of the draft stage; if I'm wrong on that, anyone can feel free to correct me. That being said, I have introduced interlanguage links to several pages on the draft.
 * I'd advise that we move any further communication to the draft talk page. Oh, and feel free to add any improvements you want, I'm going to be putting this down for the time being and will likely return to it either later tonight or tomorrow. CommissarDoggoTalk?  15:51, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Draft:Landslide at Stenungsund junction has been declined once, which is not the end of the world (not even locally). If you intend to abandon the draft, do so. Drafts with no progess being made are deleted at six months. David notMD (talk) 11:45, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Name of the page
I'd personally recommend changing the name of this page from Landslide at Stenungsund junction to 2023 Stenungsund landslide to bring the page more in line with other landslides, such as 2024 Enga landslide, 1998 Malpa landslide and 2020 Gjerdrum landslide. Commissar</b><b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Doggo</b><sup style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Talk?  12:57, 8 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Hello CommissarDoggo! My only reason to choose the name Landslide at Stenungsund junction was that I would assume (I have never officially studied Swedish, other than being submerged in this language when I was travelling in Sweden in 2001 and when I was curious enough to read Swedish websites) that this is the best translation for the original title in Swedish Jordskredet vid Stenungsundsmotet.


 * It was only when I added a category to this draft article, that I saw how the name that I have chosen is breaking a certain system in giving names to articles about landslides, with the year in front. Now that you have taken this page to a whole new level, way beyond the level of translation that I had in mind, I agree we could change the name to better fit into the Wikipedia system for pages about landslides. BUT...


 * Please wait with that name change until I am done copying our discussion from the Teahouse. Also, I am worried that I cannot find this draft article after the name has changed. Would it not be wiser to first get this article published and then change the name? Or can we install a page that sends anyone looking for Landslide at Stenungsund junction through to the new name, even if we are only in the draft stage?


 * Please keep in mind that our subject is Swedish and there is still tons of Swedish material that you cannot read at all. I can get the gist of most articles, if it's not the size of a book. I have called for help from Swedish writers, but they have erased my request. The weblink to this draft is, however, still visible in the page history of the Swedish original. I don't want to miss out on any Swedes coming to help us. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ‎82.173.160.29 (talk • contribs)


 * That seems to be the best translation for the title, yes, I'm just going off of what seems to be the done thing from what I've found.


 * I'd personally advise changing the name before it leaves the draft stage, as it'll make the whole thing go a little bit easier, that and the fact it'll probably just get moved to the suggested name later down the line anyway. If the page is moved to the suggested name, the current name will be left as a redirect, directing people to the suggested name anyway.


 * As for being able to find it, I'd again advise making an account so you can put this draft on your watchlist, that way you'll never lose it even if it does change names. Just remember to sign your comments with 4 ~ in the future, that way you can reply a bit easier. <b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#fc1008">Commissar</b><b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Doggo</b><sup style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Talk?  14:22, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Oh well, CommissarDoggo, you may have written so much for this article, that we could soon turn things around and tell the Swedes that they can further expand their article by translating your text! ;-)
 * Jokes put apart, do you have any idea as to how we could help from Sweden on board of our editing team? My time is limited after all, but I did take some time to raise a few more questions further below.
 * I have finished copying our discussion form the Teahouse-forum. Just go ahead, if you insist on changing the name of this draft. I will search with 2023, Stenungsund and landslide and hope I can find it.
 * The reason I have no account at Wikipedia, is twofold: I fear to get addicted (I have other things to do!), plus I still hate the poisonous wiki-snakes that have bitten me a few times in the past. 82.173.160.29 (talk) 15:04, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I'll move it now, just to get it out of the way. Keep this page open and you should just get the redirect. As for Swedish editors, I'll contact WP:WikiProject Sweden to see whether anyone wants to add anything. It's not a certainty, but who knows.
 * I can understand your reasons against joining Wikipedia fully, all I can ever do is espouse how much it helps. <b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#fc1008">Commissar</b><b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Doggo</b><sup style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Talk?  15:18, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Yeah! Even the link from the old to the new name is working, so well done, CommissarDoggo! Contacting Wikipedia Sweden sounds like a good idea. :-) 82.173.160.29 (talk) 15:34, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

Get help from Sweden?
I have just gone back to Jordskredet vid Stenungsundsmotet and dropped a request for help: Översättningen på Engelskan behövs hjälp, with a weblink to this draft article, with it's new name, but I found an almost empty discussion page, so I would assume that nobody will even see my message. Anyone tempted to post the same message in italics above the main article? I have tried that once, but it got deleted within minutes and if I do it again, I might get a ban.

Linkrot and archiving weblinks
Linkrot is a wellknown problem for Wikipedia. You write something clever and true, you come up with proof, by referring to an article, but your weblink turns out to have a short life on today's internet. To avoid this, we should provide back-up weblinks, we should archive all references, so the proof on which our article is based cannot disappear in thin air.

So far, so good. I am just an amateur, here at Wikipedia. I try to stay away from Wikipedia, for as long as I can, because I have had some pretty bad experiences. Then I run into the next article that is begging me to fix some error, so I give in and loose a few hours, or sometimes days. I can write references, even with archive, but not always in the best style.

After I have taken all this trouble of archiving, some more experienced Wikipedia user will complain about my work, because they would have to wikify and clean up my work. I fear that in the end all that trouble will be for nothing, so I don't even start, until some editor tells me that they recognize my good intentions and will refrain from rogue deleting. 82.173.160.29 (talk) 14:07, 8 July 2024 (UTC)


 * You've got the right idea with your citations, but it could use some improvement to "wikify" it, as you say. I'm not sure how you're making them currently, I'm assuming manually, but when you edit you can make citations automatically by clicking the " icon on the taskbar to avoid any weirdness in formatting. You can then input the archive link in the citation menu and it comes out all neat and tidy. <b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#fc1008">Commissar</b><b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Doggo</b><sup style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Talk?  14:17, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I just manually type ref with the necessary brackets and test if hte reference comes out looking halfway decent. I have never reached the high levels of knowledge to use the correct templates and all.
 * Wikipedia has thousands of pages that hardly anyone ever looks at. Every now and then, when something I find interesting is in the news, I check something on Wikipedia, I find a dusty old orphaned page and I feel the urge to inform people, so I update with recent information from trustworthy sources. This usually is met with rogue deleting, as a punishment for not mastering Wikipedia's style book, after which I either choose to push back or withdraw. My latest example is on the Italian Wikipedia, about the French village La Bérarde, that has gotten buried in mud and stones. I think of people who might want to travel there and want to save them from disappointment.
 * So yes, I might be able to do some archiving, but no, I have no clue how to use the templates and follow Wikipedia's style book. Should I start helping my way, or wait for others to do the task? 82.173.160.29 (talk) 15:32, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

References: languages and trustworthy sources
I still don't understand what editors like DrMies would expect from me. I am still hesitating to invest more time in an article that might get refused anyway, but after all the help I got from CommissarDoggo, it seems too soon to jump out of the boat just yet. So far, I seem to be the only contributor to this article who can read Swedish and language could be crucial to this article. After all, this landslide happened in Sweden and most trustworthy sources are written in Swedish language. Now we are writing an article in English, so I repeat what I wrote earlier: We should not swamp this article with references in Swedish, because we should assume that our average reader on the English language version of Wikipedia cannot read Swedish. Any reader should always be able to verify our sources!

This landslide may not have been in The Guardian in London, or in The Washington Post, but it was noticed by CNN, also an American news chain with a reputation. If making it into The Guardian in London, or into The Washington Post were to be the criteria for being a notable event, we could delete half of the articles in Wikipedia. I think I have even seen an article in Wikipedia's policy, that we should all work together to avoid that Wikipedia becomes a project with a perspective centered around one single country, as Wikipedia is a worldwide project. Like CaptainDoggo has pointed out so brilliantly, quick clay can be a major threat to people's lives and Västra Götaland has lots of this soil type, so this landlide was a notable event to anyone living on quick clay soils.

Now there is the question of what trustworthy sources are. If this landslide hits the CNN News only once, then we should not use the international media, but the Swedish media, to evaluate what trustworthy sources of information are. I would assume that any Swedish newspaper with a solid reputation would qualify as trustworthy, just like SVT and Sveriges Radio, both from the public broadcast organisation. Here in Europe, most public broadcasters are independent media sources, like NPR in America, except for countries like Poland, Hungary, Italy and Greece, where public media cannot operate independently. There is, however, the inherent disadvantage that news articles in Swedish cannot be verified by the average English (American, Canadian, Australian, etc) reader.

What I have done, is to stick to references in English, as much as I could, but I fear that this will be held against me by the next editor who will review this draft article. It would be such a waste of all the time that CommissarDoggo and I have invested... I don't even want to think about another rejection of this article. Sources in English about this landslide in Sweden are scarce. So far I have been mainly depending on Sweden's Radio (the public broadcaster) and Nyheter.sh (Swedish news in English). Only later I discovered that Nyheter.sh may be written by artificial intelligence and of course I can smell the distrust already. Let me clarify that Nyheter.sh often links to well established Swedish newspapers like Aftonbladet, Göteborgs Posten, etc, so one more click and you get your trustworthy source, plus the language problem that makes this topic turn around in circles.

My stance is, we should break free from this circle that keeps us captive and make sure we publish an article that is as close to the truth as we can get, but we cannot do this if editors, who have not done the same research that we have done, give this article 3 minutes and then swipe it off the table; So my question is: What should we do next? What do leading editors at Wikipedia think of my policy that sources in Swedish should be kept to a minimum, because they cannot be verified by the average reader? Will the next editor who will judge this article swipe all my references away from the table, because they do not match criteria of trustworthiness that may evolve from a very American-centred perspective? How about that rule that says: If the rules don't work, break the rules to get a better result? Is it not good enough that I have done hours of research, reading Swedish news articles and even sending e-mails to the Swedish seismic institute? 82.173.160.29 (talk) 14:45, 8 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Articles do not necessarily require sources to be in English, just that they are verifiable. The sources I used that were in Swedish were either backed up by sources in English or were translated using a rather handy Google Translate extension for my browser which automatically translates pages. Having sources in both languages is good, as you won't always get everything you need from English sources. As a fairly recent example, I used several Russian language sources on Grigory Sverdlin and Get Lost (organisation). <b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#fc1008">Commissar</b><b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Doggo</b><sup style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Talk?  14:54, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
 * So relatable, to read CommissarDoggo's comment at publishing the article about Григорий Свердлин:Publishing work so far, gonna cut it here so I don't work through the night. Again. That happens to me all the time, so yet another reason I don't want to have an account at Wikipedia.
 * Do you think you can trust Google Translate? I dare you to translate the Dutch phrase Het regent pijpestelen into proper English! It does translate correcly now, but I have given up on machine translations, back in the days when they could not handle cats and dogs raining from the sky.
 * We seem to not completely agree on a policy for sources, but what if I step out of your way and let you have your way? Would you manage with machine translations, or would you miss my ability to read Swedish? Do you think you can convince an editor to publish this draft tomorrow? 82.173.160.29 (talk) 15:15, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

References that are covering more than 1 piece of text
Sometimes you just cannot decide where to put your reference, because you may need the same reference to cover up 5 different phrases in your article text. Luckily Wikipedia has a trick for that, but I had forgotten how this trick works. CommissarDoggo came to the rescue and did far better than I had done.

With all due respect for what CommissarDoggo has done so far, I disagree on revolving references. For some reason CommissarDoggo has numbered his revolving references. I would have found it easier to move these references around, if they had recognizable names like Nordic Reporter (the one that is in the way now) 82.173.160.29 (talk) 18:56, 8 July 2024 (UTC)


 * I just renamed one reference that keeps coming back:
 * ref name = "Cars, bus and... Nordic Reporter"
 * in stead of reference number 6
 * Please see below: How many vehicles per day drive on E6? (AADT) 82.173.160.29 (talk) 19:49, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

Weblink collection
Let me just throw my box of weblinks on the table, because you never know if this can be useful for further research to expand this article about the Landslide at Stenungsund junction (old name)

https://www.wegenforum.nl/viewtopic.php?p=1313158#p1313158

https://www.startpage.com/

https://nyheter.sh/

https://www.dn.se/sverige/slukhal-pa-e6-bilar-och-buss-i-halet/

https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/dwKkgj/skredet-pa-e6-i-stenungsund-ser-likadant-ut-efter-tio-veckor

https://nyheter.sh/n/en/e6-highway-reopens-after-landslide-repairs

https://sverigesradio.se/artikel/nu-oppnas-e6-vid-stenungsund-efter-raset-i-hostas

https://nyheter.sh/n/en/e6-reopens-with-recycled-glass-layer-for-safety

https://www.dn.se/ekonomi/vagbanan-sakras-med-krossade-tomglas-nar-e6-oppnar-igen/

https://swedenherald.se/article/e6-at-stenungsund-opens-for-traffic

https://nyheter.sh/n/en/e6-highway-reopens-after-9-month-closure

https://sverigesradio.se/artikel/nio-manader-efter-raset-e6an-oppnar-igen-antligen

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_XVI_Gustaf

https://nyheter.sh/n/en/toxic-cleanup-chaos-before-kings-visit

https://www.dn.se/sverige/har-toms-20-ton-rutten-lax-infor-kungens-invigning-av-e6/

https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/qP1m1z/laxbilen-flyttas-fran-e6-doftfri-invigning-for-kungen

https://archive.ph/eW2RC

https://www.regeringen.se/pressmeddelanden/2024/07/aterinvigning-av-e6-i-stenungsund-efter-jordskredet/

https://www.trafikverket.se/vara-projekt/projekt-i-vastra-gotalands-lan/e6-stenungsund---omledning-och-ateruppbyggnad/

https://trafiken.nu/goteborg/arkiv/2024/juni/e6-vid-stenungsund-oppnar-den-5-juli/

https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/vast/e6-vid-stenungsund-ater-oppen-for-trafik

https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/vast/e6-ater-oppen-ucklumsborna-i-gladje-over-forsvunna-trafiken

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_landslides#2021%E2%80%93present

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Landslide_at_Stenungsund_junction

https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordskredet_vid_Stenungsundsmotet  translaton to English needed?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_route_E6

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=European_route_E6&action=history

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europastra%C3%9Fe_6  Europastraße 6

https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europavej_E6

https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/E6

https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/E6_(Sverige)

https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europavei_6

https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europavei_6_(Sverige)

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Route_europ%C3%A9enne_6  Route européenne 6

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruta_europea_E6

https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kvikkleire

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quick_clay

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stenungsund

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_landslides

https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anv%C3%A4ndardiskussion:82.173.160.29

https://www.wikimedia.org/

https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/BFb0117700  The SIL seismological data acquisition system —As operated in Iceland and in Sweden

https://www.snsn.se/network/

https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/vast/sopkaos-langs-omledningsvagen-vid-e6

https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/vast/efter-skredet-tre-nya-utredare-till-haveriutredningen

https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/vast/lastbilschaufforen-jag-hade-aldrig-latit-mina-barn-ga-dar--1fpcn6

https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/vast/boende-langs-vag-650-oroas-over-trafiksakerheten-efter-jordskredet-i-stenungsund--12nxpp

https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/vast/nya-dokument-visar-risker-for-skred-vid-e6-stroks-ur-handlingarna-stenungsund-godkande-bygge-utan-nya-matningar--54hto9  6 meters of soil to create building platform caused landslide?

https://press.sgi.se/posts/news/skred-pa-e6-i-stenungsund

www.stenungsund.se/raddning-och-sakerhet/aktuella-handelser/information-om-skredet-i-stenungsund

https://www.stenungsund.se/raddning-och-sakerhet/aktuella-handelser/information-om-skredet-i-stenungsund/samlade-nyheter-om-skredet

https://www.stenungsund.se/system/soklistning?query=jordskred&submitButton.x=14&submitButton.y=16#query/skred

https://www.stenungsund.se/system/soklistning?query=jordskred&submitButton.x=14&submitButton.y=16#

https://www.stenungsund.se/download/18.462ebf0718e384faa4c157/1710360745747/Risk-%20och%20s%C3%A5rbarhetsanalys%202023-2026%20(offentlig%20del).pdf

https://www.stenungsund.se/bygga-bo-och-miljo/bygga-nytt-andra-eller-riva/behover-jag-bygglov

https://avancez.se/e6-skredet-i-stenungsund-landslide

https://www.gp.se/nyheter/vastsverige/tva-sprangningar-i-omradet-dagarna-innan-skredet-pa-e6.6bf19076-dc00-484b-b762-31f3fff4afda

Pictures
How often have you heard that a picture says more than a 1000 words? This is even true for Wikipedia (although this encyclopedia is of course more about the text than the image), but we can only post pictures that are on the Wikimedia server, free of copyright.

I have searched Wikimedia for pictures of the Stenungsund landslide that are free of copyright, but have found nothing. There's more than enough pictures on the internet, but all with copyright, so anyone who wants to see pictures of the landslide can follow weblinks in references.

Should anyone insist to have pictures, then we should make a request to get copies of pictures made by Swedish government organisations, with their permission to upload them to the Wikimedia server. Commercial newspapers will unlikely cooperate without a hefty fee for their photographer. 82.173.160.29 (talk) 16:22, 8 July 2024 (UTC)


 * It's definitely not necessary to provide images on a Wikipedia page, but if you want to you can research a bit into the copyright laws of Sweden. You may find they have similar laws to the US, where images taken by employees of the US government can be used freely. See this image as an example. <b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#fc1008">Commissar</b><b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Doggo</b><sup style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Talk?  16:46, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

Language link: don't forget to check
Polite reminder: As soon as this article is no longer a draft, I request somebody to please conect this article to it's Swedish original: Jordskredet vid Stenungsundsmotet.

I have no clue how to do this. I tried to do it once, messed up, caused trouble to an experienced Wikipedia editor and learned from that incident that I should not touch any language links.

By now, after all that CommissarDoggo has written, we have reached the point where the Swedes could put a template on their page, requesting for more translation from English to Swedish. ;-) 82.173.160.29 (talk) 16:27, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

Data box?
Many articles have data boxes. The Swedish article about the landslide in Stenungsund also has a databox. Should this article not have a databox?

Let me translate the Swedish text from their databox:

Jordskredet vid Stenungsundsmotet => Landslide at Stenungsund junction

Jordskred i Västra Götalands län 2023 => Landslide in Western Götaland district, in 2023

Jordskred => Landslide

Land: Sverige => country: Sweden

Inom det admi­nis­tra­ti­va området => within the administrative circle of

• Västra Götalands län => Western Götaland district • Stenungsunds kommun => Stenungsund municipality Koor­di­na­ter => coordinates 58°3′32″N 11°52′46″E

Tidpunkt => point in time

23 september 2023 => 23rd of September 2023

Antal skadade => number of injured persons 3

Förs­tör­de => destroyed

E6, Länsväg O-649 => local road 649 (please check this on map - Do not assume that Swedish writers never make mistakes) 82.173.160.29 (talk) 16:40, 8 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Yup, I'll be looking into infoboxes for landslides... Either later tonight when I'm back home or tomorrow. <b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#fc1008">Commissar</b><b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Doggo</b><sup style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Talk?  16:43, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

Linking this page to other pages
Can somebody please ensure that this article gets a few links pointed towards this page, after this article is no longer a draft?

Please think about the red link in this Wikipedia list of landslides:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_landslides#2021%E2%80%93present

This draft started out as my attempt to make that link turn blue

I would also suggest that a link could be made from

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_route_E6

to this article and there's a few people who can do better than I can. 82.173.160.29 (talk) 16:47, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

Size of area affected by landslide
Different sources quote different sizes of the area affected by the landslide in Stenungsund. Some say it was 100 or 200 meters. I would assume that refers only to to actual piece of motorway (E6) that has gotten thorn apart and ripped into pieces. Other sources claim that the area affected by the landslide in Stenungsund was 700 meters long and 200 meters wide. I would assume that this includes the area of the petrol station, with the destroyed hamburger restaurant, but should we measure with Google Maps?

Further research is needed to be 100% sure about the store selling building materials, just north of to the petrol station: All I remember is a news video (from STV?) that I have seen (in September 2023?), where the owner of the store announced that he was forced to move and temporarily work from a different location, because his store had lost all access to the road, even if his building was not directly hit by the landslide. Oh,, well, it's not so easy to get your facts so straight that you reach the perfect level. ;-) 82.173.160.29 (talk) 17:09, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

How long did the landslide last?
Copy of what I have written before in Teahouse-forum, but now with right caption above

You've asked for a citation. Let me admit that I have been a bit lazy in translating the Swedish article, assuming that they had checked their information. Well, assumption is the mother of all f*ck-ups, so we may need to double check what the Swedish author has written.

Please take a look at this weblink that refers to an article in Göteborgs Posten, titled Skredet på E6 varade i nästan en minut (https://www.gp.se/1.110855805), which I would translate as Landslide on E6 lasted almost 1 minute (without checking any dictionary)

Now closely watch what happens if we go back to that same article: Göteborgs Posten has updated their article and the claim that the landslide lasted one minute can no longer be covered with the reference in the Swedish article. I would assume that this error was made in good faith.

I have just sent an e-mail to the Swedish National Seismic Network at the University of Uppsala, with a request for access to the seismic data of the Tjörn measuring station for the 23rd of September 2023. I just hope that nobody will claim that I did not try to get my facts straight! ;-) 82.173.160.29 (talk) 17:14, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

How many vehicles per day drive on E6? (AADT)
Does anybody know what the Average Annual Daily Traffic on the E6 motorway is at Stenungsund? A similar question where I started a rebellion to promote the truth was lost on the people who threatened to ban me from Wikipedia when I did not trust the number given for the second bridge on river Danube, between Calafat in Romania and Vidin in Bulgaria.

Back in 2013, the Bulgarian prime minister had claimed that 100000 vehicles per year would cross that bridge, but a year has 365 days and it would boil down to 274 vehicles per day, a number so low, that the bridge would not have been economically viable to build, but also a number highly unlikely for an international connection where the ferries were overflowing.

What happened is that nobody dared to question the number given by the Bulgarian prime minister. He may not have wanted to admit he had no clue, but all the journalists copied the number of vehicles he invented. I tried to correct this information, but lazy lies in the newspaper were considered more trustworhty than what traffic experts on a forum were discussing.

Let me just stand up again, now for E6: 8000 to 12000 vehicles per day is a rather weak number for a motorway like E6. This might be the case at the most calm sections of E6, but I doubt... In fact I found, by searching with Vägtrafikdata E6 Stenungsund fordon dygn (road traffic data E6 vehicles per day) what the real numbers are, according to Trafikverket.

Tingstadstunneln är en 455 meter lång sänktunnel under Göta älv (...) cirka 125 000 fordon som trafikerar sträckan varje dygn E6 inside Göteborg has a traffic of 125000 vehicles every day, at the Tingstad tunnel, under Göta river. (https://www.trafikverket.se/vara-projekt/projekt-i-vastra-gotalands-lan/e6-tingstadstunneln-underhallsarbete/)

The further you go away from the city, the more commuter traffic you loose, so let's find the number for Stenungsund: ''Vi har en mycket speciell situation där vi ska hantera trafik som normalt trafikeras på en av våra europavägar, säger Anneli Amft, chef underhåll Väst. E6 trafikeras varje dygn av 20000 fordon och är en viktig del av infrastrukturen i regionen.''

So the AADT at Stenungssund is 20000 vehicles per day; Trafikverket should know and is the most trustworthy source! (https://www.trafikverket.se/vara-projekt/projekt-i-vastra-gotalands-lan/e6-stenungsund---omledning-och-ateruppbyggnad/nyheter-for-projekt-e6-stenungsund-omledning-och-ateruppbyggnad/2023/oktober/sa-arbetar-vi-med-skredet-utanfor-stenungsund/)

What shall we do with the article from the Nordic Reporter? I would assume that Marcel Burger has written his article in good faith, but I don't believe his traffic statistics more than those of the Swedish authority that builds roads. I will move that quote elsewhere in the article, to a suitable place, where it covers real facts. 82.173.160.29 (talk) 18:27, 8 July 2024 (UTC)