Draft talk:Luohan (Buddhism)

So I tackled this based on a note left at the Museums project. I realized it would be better as a general article about luohans since this group of eight seems quite notable. It was only in doing more research to broaden the scope that I found Seated Luohan from Yixian which seems to be a good start at that topic. I think this one has some decent history on the one at the Royal Ontario Museum so I don't think it should be deleted outright. But maybe it should be merged with the Seated... one and both should be at a better title? Also pinging User:Jononmac46 who created the other article as well StarM 03:20, 25 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Informationally, wherever this lands, an interesting article (PDF) StarM 03:26, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Certainly the topic is notable - these are a highly important set, among the most famous Chinese ceramics, that the world's top collections have divided between themselves. They are covered in detail, with pictures, in the standard surveys: Sickman L & Soper A, The Art and Architecture of China, Pelican History of Art, 3rd ed 1971, Penguin (now Yale History of Art), LOC 70-125675, pp. 200-201, and Rawson, Jessica (ed). The British Museum Book of Chinese Art, 2007 (2nd edn), British Museum Press, ISBN 9780714124469, pp. 158-160. The article may not yet make that clear, but these . But the article would be better repurposed to cover the whole set. I never know how to extract articles from the hellish AFC process. Note that Seated Luohan from Yixian deals with British Museum's example from this set. Johnbod (talk) 15:34, 25 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Please excuse my ignorance of this topic, but after reading the Draft:Luohan (Buddhism) article, I am unclear if a Luohan is a statue or a being. Are these objects Luohans, or representations of Luohans? If the latter, then perhaps this article should be about the Buddhism perfected beings, with an example image, and one or more articles (depending on the amount of detail desired about each one) about the statues could be created with a title which better reflects that they are artistic expressions and museum pieces.  &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 18:04, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Indeed it is unclear in the present article. A Luohan is a person, or being anyway, well covered already under Arhat, the Sanscrit term, to which Luohan redirects. The set of statues should have their own group article. Johnbod (talk) 02:43, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Yeah I have no clue whatsoever how to get it out of AFC, but User:DGG said that any editor can do what we believe reasonable. Don't know if that means we can remove all the AFC banners or those need to stay so long as it's in draft space. I moved it from AFC space. I think the concept is notable but the info is scattered across too many articles including the See Alsos and the Seated... article referenced above which isn't helpful to readers. I think, but I could be wrong, that the Arhat is the being, but these are statues of luohans. I'm not sure if something especially notable about this subset vs. statues in general. I think the article (whether here or at seated or a 3rrd location entirely) should be about the statues as a whole with a subset of these seven/eight found in the cave, with a subset (if needed) for the museum pieces if there's something that sets them apart. StarM 03:20, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
 * What does seem likely is that the article should not be writen about this particular one of the small group, but aboutthe group.  DGG ( talk ) 05:11, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Do the statues have a collective name, that could be used as a title when the article is moved to mainspace? The current title won't do if the focus of the article changes.  Also, there are articles about two of the statues, so if a merger is being discussed, should a notice be put on the talk page of the other article?  Also, don't worry about the Afc templates.  They can be removed easily when the article is shifted to mainspace.&mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 13:19, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Group of glazed pottery luohans from Yixian or similar would be best, but there is no exact standard name. The Ontario title now redirects to this one. Johnbod (talk) 13:42, 26 February 2014 (UTC)