File talk:Old Joe and University of Birmingham from Bournbrook.jpg

Hello Jimmy

Hope you don’t mind me just making a little comment on what you have down for the location of this cracking photo of Old Joe, which is that it isn’t taken from Selly Park but rather is actually taken in Bournbrook. Looks like you were standing at the top end of Alton Road, maybe where it becomes Rookery Road? Anyway, as I say this is the district of Bournbrook, whereas Selly Park is to the east of Bournbrook Road and south of Raddlebarn Road, and all the old terraced houses like the ones in the picture are part of Bournbrook. Like I say, I hope you don’t mind me pointing this out, just in case you wanted to correct things.

Regards

Martin


 * Hi Martin,


 * I can't honestly remember exactly where it was, but I tend to think of Selly Park as up the hill and Bournbrook as down the hill, so when I came to pick out and upload the photo I was thinking of it as Selly Park purely because it was on the hill. Looking at it again though as you say Victorian terraces like these is more of a Bournbrook thing, while Selly Park is a bit more villas and semis with gardens, so I'm sure you're right and I'll move it.


 * At least I didn't call it Selly Oak!


 * JimmyGuano (talk) 18:46, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Hi Jimmy

Many thanks for replying to my comment, and glad to hear you weren’t offended. Yes it was good of you not to say it was in Selly Oak, as sadly so many these days do seem to see everything with a B29 post code as being Selly Oak; irrespective of whether it is or not! Unfortunately, the, by and large, transient nature of Bournbrook’s population today tends to mean many who live there now don’t know the area’s name or history. On the one hand I can understand things, as both the Selly Oak Ward and the Selly Oak Parliamentary Constituency cover so much more than Selly Oak proper it can make things confusing. As someone who grew up in Selly Oak, near the Park, but whose grandparents’ house was in Bournbrook, actually in Alton Road as it happens, I’ve always thought of all the terraced houses from the University gates right up to the railway bridge as being Bournbrook. Indeed at one time there used to be signs on the Bristol Road just below the bridge, one near the Library and one on the other side by the Institute, with the one heading into Town saying “Bournbrook” and the one out of Town saying “Selly Oak”, so folk knew where one started and the other ended. These went years ago mind, but the old sign at the other end of Bournbrook, where the actual brook passes under the Bristol Road, is still there, or was at least it was last time I looked. Selly Park, to my mind, has always been pretty much middleclass, and, as you say is “more villas and semis”, whereas Bournbrook was traditionally more working class, hence the terraced houses. Anyroad, like I say, glad you didn’t mind me noting things.

Best regards

Martin

P.S. Interesting what you say about things being on the hill, as long before Bournbrook and Selly Park were developed this part of the old Parish of Northfield was, in fact, called Selly Hill.


 * No offence at all - everybody improving and correcting each others contributions is what a collaborative encyclopaedia is all about. Quite the opposite - thank you.


 * Part of the problem with Selly Oak is that it barely exists as a place any more because (in classic Birmingham fashion) it has been flattened to make a nice wide road and a car park for Sainsbury's. As Bournbrook still has a proper centre it seems to have become the centre of Selly Oak by default, even though it's arguably somewhere else entirely. Most ridiculous is the "Selly Oak by-pass" which obviously doesn't actually by pass Selly Oak!


 * Selly Hill is particularly interesting because of the tantalising possibility that it could have been an important Roman (and possibly pre- and sub- Roman) transport node . JimmyGuano (talk) 19:56, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Hi Jimmy

You’re quite right about the ‘development’ of Selly Oak pretty much destroying the old shopping area, though thankfully there are a few shops left around the junction with Oak Tree Lane. I do remember, to a certain extent, how it was before they tore down many of the shops, along with the old Oak Cinema, particularly the ones that used to be on the stretch from Chapel Lane down to the Station. My Dad could even recall when Selly Oak High Street was bustling with shops, back in the 1930s and 40s when he grew up there. As you say, at least Bournbrook’s High Street survived better, thanks in part, I would venture, to it having the customer base of students from the University.

Yes the Selly Oak By-pass was a bit of a misnomer, and it would have been more accurate to have called it the Bournbrook By-pass. But then I’m afraid I don’t think much of Birmingham Corporation’s attitude when it comes to Bournbrook (on all the plans they insisted on calling it ‘Selly Oak Centre’, a phrase I’d never heard of before and no doubt one concocted by someone in an office who’d never been there). I did write to them about possibly naming the by-pass ‘Ariel Way’ after the famous Bournbrook-based motorcycle manufactures, something I heard mooted on one of Carl Chinn’s programmes, or possibly after Bournbrook’s most famous son David Hughes (Geoffrey Paddison), the popular singer of the 1950s. But no, what did they do – they named it Aston Webb Boulevard, after the London-born architect who helped designed the main building at the University, and in whose honour that was alredy named. Seems like the by-pass not only physically by-passed Bournbrook, but also by-passed its history and heritage (mind I think they did name the aqueduct for the canal after Ariel – meaning you might suppose they built boats and not motorbikes!).

It does make me wonder what the University’s involvement in all of this was, and I have to say their decision to market their halls of residence in Bournbrook as ‘Selly Oak Village’, a term that to older residents always referred to the traditional heart of Selly Oak around the junction of the Bristol Road and Oak Tree Lane where the original oak tree stood, is more than unfortunate. As I’ve said I can understand some of the confusion, what with Selly Oak in a political sense meaning much more than just the suburb, so that Bournbrook’s representatives are the local councillors and M.P. for Selly Oak. Then there’s the fact the station is Selly Oak Station, and the Library is Selly Oak Library (when both might have been better called the Selly Oak & Bournbrook Station / Library), so for simplicity’s sake calling it all Selly Oak is much easier I suppose. Anyway, for many like me, who had family ties with Bournbrook, or grew up there, it still means something, despite all the ignorance and indifference over the name, and thankfully the Ordnance Survey still see fit to keep it on their maps.

As to the theory that the Icknield Street crossed Selly Hill, and in particular Selly Park Rec., and then possibly down the other side heading for Metchley Fort, this is indeed interesting, though, as far as I know, none of this is actually proven. It seems a fair assumption that the Icknield Street came up through what is now Stirchley, but whether it went over Selly Hill or around it is not clear. It is fair to say that another Roman Road from Droitwich did run roughly along what is now the Bristol Road, and it would be likely that this would have met the Icknield Street at some point. Presumably Metchley Fort would have been linked to this local road network, but I don’t think anyone has yet been able to produce evidence of what the layout was and where everything actually came together, in spite of some of the assertions in this respect made here on Wikipedia.

Well it seems I’ve rambled on a bit – hope you don’t mind!?

Very best regards

Martin