File talk:Ray dolan-1975.jpg


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of a fair use image as a replaceable image. Please do not modify it. 

The result was to delete the image. — ξ xplicit  00:51, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Picture of Ray Dolan
Ray Dolan stopped playing music at least since 1990 and didn't release anything since 1975. There's no chance at all to find a recent free image of him as he went missing in 1990 (I can't source it because of the poor coverage about this artist. The article doesn't mention it.). The only known pictures of him are the ones included on the insert of his solo album. See WP:NFC criterion #1 at the "However, for some retired groups" point. If this picture is deleted, it'd be just impossible to replace it by a free one. Moreover, his LP has never been re-released in any forms, and I really doubt that EMI has any interest concerning this artist and his album.--Vegetable man38 (talk · contribs) 19:10, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
 * The relevant portion from WP:NFC criterion #1 regarding this image of a single artist is "retired individuals whose notability rests in large part on their earlier visual appearance". This isn't an image of a retired group where, for example, the various members do not appear in company together any more. While there may be no free equivalent currently available, the other part of WP:NFCC requires that no free equivalent "could be created". VernoWhitney (talk) 20:43, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure to understand: this non-free picture can't be replaced by a free equivalent as it doesn't exist (I scanned this photo from my own documents as there was absolutely no available photos, free or non-free, of this artist on the internet.). I think that the rationale I made for this image was clear about this point. You're right, there is a relevant portion in WP:NFC criterion #1: "However, for some [...] retired individuals whose notability rests in large part on their earlier visual appearance, a new picture may not serve the same purpose as an image taken during their career, in which case the use [of a non-free content] would be acceptable.": I uploaded the picture, as it is relevant to this portion (and also this one from WP:NFCC: "Non-free content is used only where no free equivalent is available"). As I explained it earlier, Ray Dolan's notability rests in large part on his earlier appearance, as he didn't release anything after 1975 and he's retired since (and maybe dead). That's why I don't understand what's the problem with this image regarding the wikipedia rules, and why it should be deleted. Thanks for your answer.--Vegetable man38 (talk · contribs) 00:35, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
 * You're absolutely correct that if he's missing and presumed dead then we could safely assume that no free image could be created and there would be no problem with this image. If, however, that's just speculation and there's no reliable source for it, then he falls into the same category as all other currently low-profile but notable people with Wikipedia articles: just because there isn't a free image out there and a free one might not be easy to get, doesn't mean it's impossible. Now as far as I can tell his notability rests in large part on his singing, not his appearance. If he was a model instead of musician, or if his appearance was the subject of sourced commentary then that would likely be different. If I missed something in the article or if there are other sources which could be used to expand the article in that direction, then that would likely support the inclusion of the image. VernoWhitney (talk) 23:19, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it.