File talk:The 2011 Libyan rebellion.png/Archive 1

Colombia
Even Colombia openly opposed Col’ Ghadffi in the UN! [][].Wipsenade (talk) 11:12, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Chad
I have modified it to show 'merceneries' not the goverment of Chad.Wipsenade (talk) 09:55, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Merc's
Presumably the mercs weren't provided by the governments of those nations. This map gives the idea that they were. TheArchaeologist Say Herro 08:09, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

I will modify the text relating to the Merc's to reflect this.Wipsenade (talk) 15:42, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Zimbabwe should be added as Gaddafi ally —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.225.134.57 (talk) 15:17, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Added it.Wipsenade (talk) 19:50, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Western Sahara has sent Merc's to[].Wipsenade (talk) 10:11, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Hope
It was repeatedly removed from both articles I put it on. It was denounced by specific users as unsorced despite the aticles being cited as the sorces (they have the same mass news/web page as sources) and POV for not covering up the merceneries as a whole and/or portraying the world as ant-Gadaffi (which it is). Let's keep it safe on our userpages and then send it to the Commons later.Wipsenade (talk) 10:01, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

SVG Version
I've made a SVG version of this image (with some changes for better visibility - eg.: the "X" mark on France), but now I've found out I'm not an "autoconfirmed user", so I can't upload it. Is there any way someone can upload it instead? - Frsepulv (talk) 02:14, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Go to tinypic or imageshack and link the uploaded image here. Then someone can save it and upload it to Wiki. :) TheArchaeologist Say Herro 02:26, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Had to upload it somewhere else (being a SVG file, TinyPic and Imageshack didn't accept it as an image). Here it is. Hope it helps =) Frsepulv (talk) 05:52, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
 * BTW, I made it based on this file, itself a modification of another file on Wikimedia Commons Frsepulv (talk) 05:58, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Spelling
It says "there" instead of "their" in "evacuated there citizens".

It will be dealt with. Wipsenade (talk) 13:24, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

News just in
The UN has put an arms/trade embargo/ICC court referal on the 27th [].Wipsenade (talk) 13:24, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Multipile X's on some countries
There are multiple X's on Russia, the US and China. There should be only one for each ofc. TheArchaeologist Say Herro 19:40, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

O.K., point noted. :-)Wipsenade (talk) 12:57, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Yet not dealt with! Dammit Wipsenade, the people expect maps with properly placed X's!! Just kidding, you're doing a great job, keep it up! =) TheArchaeologist Say Herro 15:15, 28 February 2011 (UTC)


 * :-)!Wipsenade (talk) 16:59, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Note
'I am loading a bigger, better and cleare map some time tomorrow. The blank was by Commons user Roak. :-)' Wipsenade (talk) 03:09, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Done.Wipsenade (talk) 17:56, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

A preamble to war?
Over the last 3 days Italy sends in 2 patrol boats, a recognisance vessel and a special op's team. 2 American war ships are on the way and a spy plane is reportedly to be flying between Southern Italy and Tunisia. The UK's SAS troops and RAF troop aircraft rescue UK, German and Irish oil workers from the southern desert provinces, the UK sends 2 supply ships loaded medical supplies to Bengazi and readies fighter aircraft in its Cypriot bases. France sends a patrol boat to Tunisia. The German, Austrian' Greek and Azari armed forces helped in the airlifts/rescue flotillas. I'm adding a seperate milatery map along side the diplomatic one. Wipsenade (talk) 15:15, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

See the No Fly Zone.[]


 * The US Navy has an Amphib in the med, with a loaded Marine Expeditionary Unit onboard, I hear. This shouldn't really be a surprise. I wouldn't characterize it as a "preamble to war", though. If (when) NATO goes in, it will be a peace-keeping mission. Police action. Regardless, this is all rank speculation, and this isn't a forum, so... — V = IR (Talk&thinsp;&bull;&thinsp;Contribs) 17:13, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Should Israel be red?
I am wondering, should Israel be red? They obviously didn't sever their diplomatic relations with Libya recently (they've never had 'em), but they're also not just under the condemnation category. TheArchaeologist Say Herro 00:37, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

I'll check it out. sir.Wipsenade (talk) 09:32, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

DoneWipsenade (talk) 10:21, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Vielen Danke. TheArchaeologist Say Herro 00:06, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Abkhazia?
Why is Abkhazia shown as independent in this map and not South Ossetia? Not that I support the independence of either, but still I don't see why either is shown when only four UN Members and two non-UN members recognise them. Kosovo has significantly more, even if it's not a UN Member yet, and more importantly the English speaking world has mostly recognised it. Even more important, I'm not sure Abkhazia or South Ossetia have had anything to say on the matter. TheArchaeologist Say Herro 00:36, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

I have noticed I missed off S. Ossetia. I also added Somaliland as well as Abkhazia.Wipsenade (talk) 09:13, 4 March 2011 (UTC) They are all off nowWipsenade (talk) 15:28, 4 March 2011 (UTC).


 * Well no one recognises Somaliland, lol. Ah very good, thanks mate! Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie, AKA TheArchaeologist Say Herro 18:32, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Belarussians possibly upto more no-good (mercs)
According to this article that User:Narking found, some of the mercs are possibly coming from Belarus as well. Also his Ukrainian nurse abandoned him. BURN. TheArchaeologist Say Herro 00:44, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Like Senegal and Uganda, I'm Googling it up and will investigate it all tonight. Wipsenade (talk) 09:20, 4 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Very good. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie, AKA TheArchaeologist Say Herro 18:35, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

And Serbia [].Wipsenade (talk) 10:29, 7 March 2011 (UTC)


 * There's a shocker. (I'm not a fan of theirs) Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie, AKA TheArchaeologist Say Herro 06:56, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Gun runners and arms deals
Sources on arms dealers and gun runners[][][][][][][]. Wipsenade (talk) 11:02, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Peace at last
The Hugo Chavez peace deal []. Wipsenade (talk) 11:02, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

No Fly-zone
Arab league votes for a No Fly Zone][][][][][][][][][].Wipsenade (talk) 17:18, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Idk mate, doesn't seem like enough sources to me.... (=p) Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie, AKA TheArchaeologist Say Herro 18:38, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

The NFZ proposal
Calls for a NFZ over Libya has come from several independent sources, and no one final plan for how a NFZ should be implemented currently exists.

On February 21, 2011, Libyan deputy Permanent Representative to UN Ambassador Ibrahim Dabbashi was "calling on the UN to impose a no-fly zone on all Tripoli to cut off all supplies of arms and mercenaries to the regime."

On February 28, Prime Minister David Cameron of the United Kingdom proposed the idea of a no-fly zone to prevent Gaddafi from airlifting mercenaries and using his military aeroplanes and armoured helicopters against civilians.

On March 7, US Ambassador to NATO Ivo Daalder announced that NATO decided to step up surveillance missions of E-3 AWACS aircraft to 24 hours a day. On the same day it was reported that one UN diplomat confirmed to AFP on condition of anonymity that France and Britain were drawing up a resolution on the no-fly zone and it go before the UN Security Council as early as this week.

As of March 9, 2011, the United States has naval forces positioned off the coast of Libya, as well as forces already in the region - including the aircraft carrier USS Enterprise (CVN-65). Canada has dispatched a naval frigate to the area, reinforcing the display of western power. “We are there for all inevitabilities. And NATO is looking at this as well … This is taken as a precautionary and staged measure,” signaled Canadian Defence Minister Peter MacKay. Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper has expressed the Canadian Air Force's readiness to contribute to setting up a no-fly zone should the UN and NATO come to such a decision.

On March 9, 2011, the head of the Libyan National Transitional Council, Mustafa Mohamed Abud Al Jeleil, "pleaded for the international community to move quickly to impose a no-fly zone over Libya, declaring that any delay would result in more casualties".

On 12 March, the Arab League "called on the United Nations Security Council to impose a no-fly zone over Libya in a bid to protect civilians from air attack". The Arab League's request was announced by Youssef bin Alawi bin Abdullah, Oman's foreign minister. He stated that all member states present at the meeting agreed with the proposal. Wipsenade (talk) 20:26, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

G8 vote- [][]

The proposed Libyan no-fly zone is a no-fly zone (NFZ) that was proposed to be set up over Libya during the 2011 Libyan uprising by diplomats and political leaders including Libyan deputy Permanent Representative to UN Ambassador Ibrahim Dabbashi, United Kingdom Prime Minister David Cameron and the head of the Libyan National Transitional Council Mustafa Abdul Jalil. On 12 March, the Arab League called on the United Nations Security Council to impose the no-fly zone. Early proposals for enforcement of the no-fly zone include actions by the NATO and Arab states.

Several Libyan and international politicians, diplomats and organisations have called for a no-fly zone over Libya.

The Libyans
On February 21, 2011, Libyan deputy Permanent Representative to UN Ambassador Ibrahim Dabbashi "[called] on the UN to impose a no-fly zone on all Tripoli to cut off all supplies of arms and mercenaries to the regime."

On March 9, 2011, the head of the Libyan National Transitional Council, Mustafa Abdul Jalil, "pleaded for the international community to move quickly to impose a no-fly zone over Libya, declaring that any delay would result in more casualties". Three days later, he stated that if pro-Gaddafi forces reached Benghazi, then they would kill "half a million" people. He stated, "If there is no no-fly zone imposed on Gaddafi's regime, and his ships are not checked, we will have a catastrophe in Libya."

On March 12, thousands of Libyan women marched in the streets of the rebel-held town of Benghazi, calling for the imposition of a no-fly zone over Libya. One of the protestors, Nada el-Turki, stated, "We don't want foreign intervention, we just want a no-fly zone and our boys will do the rest. But they have light weapons in the face of air strikes."

International view
On February 28, Prime Minister David Cameron of the United Kingdom proposed the idea of a no-fly zone to prevent Muammar Gaddafi from airlifting mercenaries and using his military aeroplanes and armoured helicopters against civilians.

On March 7, US Ambassador to NATO Ivo Daalder announced that NATO decided to step up surveillance missions of E-3 AWACS aircraft to 24 hours a day. On the same day it was reported that an anonymous UN diplomat confirmed to AFP that France and Britain were drawing up a resolution on the no-fly zone that would be considered by the United Nations Security Council during the same week. The Gulf Cooperation Council also on that day called upon the UN Security Council to "take all necessary measures to protect civilians, including enforcing a no-fly zone over Libya."

By March 9, the United States had naval forces positioned off the coast of Libya, as well as forces already in the region - including the aircraft carrier USS Enterprise (CVN-65). Canada had dispatched a naval frigate to the area, reinforcing the display of western power. Canadian Defence Minister Peter MacKay stated, "We are there for all inevitabilities. And NATO is looking at this as well... This is taken as a precautionary and staged measure." Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper stated that the Canadian Air Force is ready to contribute to setting up a no-fly zone if the UN and NATO decided to do this.

On March 12, the Arab League "called on the United Nations Security Council to impose a no-fly zone over Libya in a bid to protect civilians from air attack". The Arab League's request was announced by Oman's Minister of Foreign Affairs, Yusuf bin Alawi bin Abdullah, who stated that all member states present at the meeting agreed with the proposal.

On March 15, a resolution for a no-fly zone was proposed and tabled by Nawaf Salam, Lebanon's Ambassador to the United Nations. The resolution was immediately backed by Britain and France.

NFZ Enforcement
Planning for a possible NFZ was made in late February and early March by NATO, especially by NATO members United Kingdom and France. The United Kingdom and France want to establish a no-fly zone but they may not have enough fighter and supporting aircraft available to enforce it because of defense cuts and other obligations such as the occupation of Afghanistan.

The US has the air assets needed, but is cautious about establishing a no-fly zone without a legal basis. Both NATO and the United Nations might provide this.

Because of the sensitive nature of military action by the US against an Arab nation, it is possible that the US is looking for a joint NATO/Arab enforcement of the no-fly zone. Egypt, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates are possible partners. Since the UAE is the only country without internal unrest and depends on the US for protection against Iran, it is a likely candidate for enforcing the no-fly zone with NATO.

On Saturday 12 March the foreign ministers of the Arab League agreed on asking the United Nations to impose a no-fly zone over Libya. This brings a joint NATO/Arab enforced fly-zone closer to establishing.

NFZ Criticism
According to former United States Deputy Undersecretary of Defense, Jed Babbin, the imposition of a no-fly zone over Libya would be "an irresponsible act of war" against the country.

At a congressional hearing, United States Secretary of Defense Robert Gates said that "a no-fly zone begins with an attack on Libya to destroy the air defenses ... and then you can fly planes around the country and not worry about our guys being shot down. But that's the way it starts."

Foreign Minister of France Alain Juppe stated that "intervening means waging war".

If the United States were to enforce a NFZ over Libya, it is unclear if it would require an authorization from Congress to use force or authorization by the United Nations. Any such authorization was not granted by United Nations Security Council Resolution 1970 adopted on February 26, 2011.

Lack of UN mandate
United States Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said that any decision to impose a no-fly zone over Libya should be taken by the United Nations and "not the United States". British Foreign Secretary William Hague stated that plans to impose no-fly zone over Libya need "clear legal basis [and] strong international support". Foreign Minister of France Alain Juppe said that there should not be any international intervention into the conflict in Libya without prior approval from the United Nations. Secretary General of NATO Anders Fogh Rasmussen stated that "the imposition of a no-fly zone would ... require a new United Nations mandate."

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov described the idea of imposing limits on Libyan air space as "superfluous" and Russian NATO ambassador Dmitri Rogozin stated that: "A ban on the national air force or civil aviation to fly over their own territory is still a serious interference into the domestic affairs of another country".

Permanent Representative of China to the United Nations Li Baodong stated, "We believe that this political crisis should be resolved through peaceful means such as dialogue" and that China "[respects] the sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity of Libya."

As permanent members of the Security Council, Russia and China could both veto any draft resolution to authorize a no-fly zone.

Perception of interference
Sami Hermez, an anthropologist from Princeton University, argues that "while many have called for a no-fly zone, this would effectively equal military intervention ... a scenario that would surely win Gaddafi many more supporters" and that "aiding opposition forces by supplying them with military capabilities will only make it easier for Gaddafi and his loyalists to cast these forces as unpatriotic tools of 'Western' interests".

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton stated before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee that: "The tough issues about how and whether there would be any intervention to assist those who are opposing Libya is very controversial within Libya and within the Arab community".

Complexity of operation
According to chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Mike Mullen, a no-fly zone would be "an extraordinarily complex operation to set up."

Secretary of Defense Robert Gates stated that more air assets would need to be moved into the vicinity of Libya and that the operation also would require "more airplanes than you would find on a single aircraft carrier ... it is a big operation in a big country."

On March 9, Secretary General of NATO Anders Fogh Rasmussen stressed that "the imposition of a no-fly zone would be quite a complicated undertaking".

According to the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments, establishing and maintaining a no-fly zone over Libya could cost the US Department of Defense up to $300 million a week (or around $15 billion a year) under scenarios formulated by the think tank.

On the contrary, Gen. Merrill McPeak, a former US Air Force chief of staff, said: “I can’t imagine an easier military problem.” He suggested concentrating flights over those parts of the country that Muammar Gaddafi doesn’t control. That would remove the need to attack and take out Libyan air defense systems.

Questionable effectiveness
United States (US) Ambassador to NATO Ivo Daalder stated that: "[I]t's important to understand that no-fly zones...really have a limited effect against the helicopters or the kind of ground operations that we've seen, which is why a no-fly zone, even if it were to be established, isn't really going to impact what is happening there today. And the kinds of capabilities that are being used to attack the rebel forces and, indeed, the population will be largely unaffected by a no-fly zone."

According to Richard Haass, the president of the US think tank Council on Foreign Relations, "there is no reason to believe a no-fly zone would be decisive. In fact, we have every reason to believe it would not be, given that aircraft and helicopters are not central to the regime's military advantages." Haass argues that regime could defeat the opposition with no air support, simply by exploiting its advantages in terms of ground forces.

At a hearing before the House Appropriations Committee on March 10, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton reminded the audience that: "...we had a no-fly zone over Iraq. It did not prevent Saddam Hussein from slaughtering people on the ground and it did not get him out of office. We had a no-fly zone and then we had 78 days of bombing in Serbia. It did not get Milosevic out of office. It did not get him out of Kosovo until we put troops on the ground with our allies."

Risk of co-option
Richard Haass argues that: ""It is one thing to acknowledge Moammar Gadhafi as a ruthless despot, which he has demonstrated himself to be. But doing so does not establish the democratic bona fides of those who oppose him. And even if some of those opposing him are genuine democrats, there is no reason to assume that helping to remove the regime would result in the ascendancy of such people.""

According to Haass, removing Gadaffi by force could "easily set in motion a chain of events in which a different strongman, with the backing of a different tribe, took over" or create a power vacuum exploitable by al Qaeda and similar groups.

Mexico
🇲🇽 Mexico Mexico condemned the violence and repression of Libyan crack down and evacuated 12 of their 123 citizens to Italy. 6 more got their own way to Tunisia and 2 were airlifted to Malta on another nations flight. Mexico also gave it’s full support to America’s Libya policy. --213.81.115.70 (talk) 16:01, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Niger, Egypt, Algeria, Syria and Tunisia
They have offered limited help to the rebels to  [][][] [][].

The United Nations Security Council Resolution 1973 vote of March 18
Russia, China, India, Brazil and Germany were abstaners. Germany and Russia are Pro-Libya. All others voted to make a NFZ and protect civilians[] Military strikes against Libya will take place "swiftly" and France will definitely participate, acording to the French government spokesman Francois Baroin said in an interview on the 18th with RTL radio.[]

Wipsenade (talk) 10:06, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Norway ans the UAE are involved, amongst others[][][][Belgische politici unaniem achter militaire interventie - Onrust in het Midden-Oosten - De Morgen].Wipsenade (talk) 10:01, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

China/Libya
China is about the only place other than the usual nations (like Cuba) to stll have a Libyan Embacy[].Wipsenade (talk) 16:54, 18 March 2011 (UTC)