Help talk:Creation and usage of media files/Archive 1

Video
I seem to remember a discussion about using video media on wikipedia, but can't find it. Does anyone recall where it is? I have some .avi files that I think would be a welcome addition.. what (if anything) can I do with them? Pete


 * Well you can transcode them for a start. We would have to look at open video standards. I think Xiph (people behind Ogg Vorbis) has an open video codec. CGS 11:40, 19 Aug 2003 (UTC).


 * Given the load on the Wikipedia server, the bandwidth costs of making video available, and the various format issues (in terms of freeness, availability, video quality, and required bandwidth). I think some extended discussion might be wise before people start uploading videos.  --Robert Merkel 11:38, 23 Aug 2003 (UTC)


 * You'll find a a discussion over here m:Talk:Video policy mk 08:03, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Spreadsheets
We seem to have a policy that the Image: namespace is just for images. And sounds and movies. But definitely not Word documents or anything like that. However, I have a couple of Excel spreadsheets here I think should really be uploaded to Wikipedia. They're for editorial convenience, not content. I could put them offsite, but then permanance wouldn't be guaranteed. One is the spreadsheet I used to generate the inorganic compound property tables: it has a really handy macro to merge the spreadsheet with wikitext. The other is the spreadsheet I used to generate Image:Articles per day 20030418.png. Both would be very useful to anyone wishing to extend or improve my work. How would people feel if I uploaded them? -- Tim Starling 14:41 Apr 25, 2003 (UTC)


 * Excel spreadsheets probably aren't a "Transparent" format compatible with the GFDL, which means that you'd need to use a different license if you want other people to be able to extend and improve your work. public domain is simplest.
 * Another issue is that Excel spreadsheets can contain viruses, and we recently decided not to upload executables because they might contain viruses/trojans/etc - not sure if this is a real issue.
 * I suggest uploading them both to meta... Martin 15:25 Apr 25, 2003 (UTC)


 * Martin beat me to it on the virus issue. Excel is a fairly significant virus vector, and in any case, lots of people don't have it. (I certainly don't - I use spreadsheets all the time but I wouldn't touch Excel with a bargepole: I am no security fanatic but there are limits to the risks I'll take. For data, a universal format file (comma delimited as a lowest common demominator, but whatever) would be fine, I should think. But how to deal with macros? Good question. Tannin 15:31 Apr 25, 2003 (UTC)


 * Don't upload Excel spreadsheets because of license and virus issues. It's better to host it outside wikipedia. I can' host it on my ftp if you want.
 * Ericd 20:10 Apr 25, 2003 (UTC)

It's a pity I can't do something like this due to a legal issue. A transparent copy of a VBA macro is no use to anyone, so there's not much point in me making one. Anyone who has Excel would prefer an XLS file, and anyone who doesn't have it can't use it anyway. Note that meta is covered by GFDL as well, so Martin's suggestion of uploading it there would be no better.

The virus issue worries me less -- it would have to be a pretty clever virus to escape both my attention and recently-updated McAfee's attention. It's theoretically possible but I haven't heard of anything like it -- all the VBA viruses I've read about are much too simple to pull off anything like that. Anyway, wherever I upload it, someone will eventually have to get over their paranoia and click on "enable macros". -- Tim Starling 05:27 Apr 26, 2003 (UTC)

I am also thinking about uploading a database to wikipedia. The database does do some fairly trivial computation but couldn't be sensibly replaced by an html table. It's purpose is to help balance the number of news resources on News sources by the population of the countries involved. I am writing it in open office. In this instance could I upload it in open offices standard format. I imagine that the issues mentioned above are less problematic with open offices format? Barnaby dawson 21:28, 5 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I'd just like to point out, if anyone's not aware of it, that Openoffice SXC (spreadsheet) files can be uploaded to . See commons:Commons:File types. pfctdayelise 14:14, 7 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the pointer. Barnaby dawson 14:37, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

I would like to upload Excel files demonstrating the computations on the financial articles. As a first example I uploaded PV example.xls, but now I understand that it is not allowed. Maybe the virus issue can be solved by not allowing VBA? It is a pity that such examples will not be availaible to the public. --YoavD 07:15, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

What about Open Office XML documents?
Since MS Office 2007's file formats are open standards, should the .xlsx (Excel 2007) format, and other Office 2007 formats (like .docx for MS Word 2007), be allowed here? I would not recommend allowing the .xlsm and any other .***m formats even though they are open formats, because those extensions signify that macros are contained, and macros can contain malware. With the MS converter for older versions of Office, it should be trivial to generate Open Office XML documents. Jesse Viviano 04:57, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

MPG and Quicktime
Thomas Edison

I would like to upload : Cattle driven to slaughter / Thomas A. Edison, Inc. ; producer, James White as an example for both the cattle article, and the motion picture history article. It is in both MPG(4mb) and Quicktime(1mb). Should I upload the MPG? Its in public domain as it was created in 1897. I assume thta Wikipedia would not be friendly towards proprietary formats like quicktime. See the Library of Congress site where I downloaded it Greenmountainboy 21:36, 17 Dec 2003 (UTC)


 * I, as a Wikipedia reader, would personally prefer to have access to both versions, or at least to the MPEG version. But if I was wikipedia owner (paying the bandwidth fees) I would suggest you just to put an external link to the MPG and/or Quicktime file at lcweb2.loc.gov website (there is no reason to duplicate the file here in wikipedia, I suppose lcweb2.loc.gov isn't going to delete the file from its servers in the near future). Optim 22:17, 17 Dec 2003 (UTC)


 * If I remember correctly, there is a 2MB size limit on media files. So the MPG format would be too large, unless split in two. I'm not sure about the use of quicktime, but I've never seen it on Wikipedia, so that could be a reason :) Alfio 23:14, 17 Dec 2003 (UTC)


 * MPG files are disallowed here because they are encumbered by patents. QuickTime files are probably also encumbered by patents, and are a proprietary file format, so they are disallowed here as well. Since one of the goals is to be accessible to users of purely free software, those formats conflict with that goal and therefore must be disallowed until the patents expire. Jesse Viviano 05:01, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Flash
Is it possible to upload a flash-file? On the danish Wikipedia we are making a portal for children. On that page it would be fun to have a collage of pictures leading to different articles. Because it is for children it would be fine if it was animated to some extend too.

- Malene (admin on the danish Wikipedia) (62.107.100.2 07:56, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC))


 * I am desperate to upload a flash file to display the activity that occurs when 'quidco' is included in private messages on rpoints. Is wikipedia likely to enable the uploading of flash pretty soon. The extension exists for wikimedia here.

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Flash

Thanks Supposed 16:34, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
 * The best way to find out would be to ask the devs in on Freenode in #wikimedia-tech, but I *very much* doubt we will be getting flash support anytime in the near future. Raul654 17:00, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Discussion on video policy, please comment.
In response to some new developments, I'd like comment on a possible update to the currently-outdated Video policy. Please comment on the discussion here, as this involves all Wikimedia projects. grendel|khan 13:14, 2005 Jan 3 (UTC)

Pronunciations in articles
Recently user Amitst added Image:Monkey.ogg and Image:Marmalade.ogg, which are simply pronunciations of the words, and added links to the Monkey and Marmalade articles. This seems inappropriate to me—surely this would be more appropriate in Wiktionary or something—but I've been hesitant to remove them because I haven't been able to find an actual policy against it. Is it safe to say that these have no place on Wikipedia and should be removed from the articles? —Cleared as filed. 03:38, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Recent Revert
I've gone ahead and reverted this edit because it's far, far out of place on this page. This page is not for discussing royalties, patent law/software patents, 'etc - it's simply a page listing free (gratis) software availble to do the job we need done. I don't have any objections if someone wants to rewrite the recent changes to fit the demeanor of this page. &rarr;Raul654 01:37, August 11, 2005 (UTC)

Featured sound candidates
Please have a look at this proposal and comment on its talk page. Thanks.--Pharos 04:08, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

How to use ffmpeg2theora
For those of us who don't understand a single word at the "examples" page of the ffmpeg2theora site, it would be nice with a hint on how to use it. Jon Harald Søby \ no na 18:36, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Here's the super-executive summary of how to use ff2mpeg for windows:
 * 1) Save ffmpeg2theora to your desktop
 * 2) Go to start -> run
 * 3) Type "cmd" and hit enter. A black screen will pop up. This is the command prompt
 * 4) Drag the ffmpeg2theora icon (the one on your desktop) into the window. The ffmpeg2theora's location will be copied into the command prompt window
 * 5) Click the window and hit the space bar once (to put a space a after the address)
 * 6) Drag the file you want decoded (let's call it xyz.mpg) into the command prompt window
 * 7) Click the command prompt window and hit enter
 * 8) Assuming you did everything correct, ffmpeg2theora will convert the file. The new location will be xyz.ogg. &rarr;Raul654 19:45, September 3, 2005 (UTC)


 * That worked, thank you very much. =) Jon Harald Søby \ no na 09:19, 4 September 2005 (UTC)


 * With Vista, you can't drap and drop. Just type "ff" and press tab when in the folder containing the program, etc. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 19:02, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

MP3 format illegal?

 * A decision has been made that MP3 files will not be hosted at Wikipedia.

The newsgroup message at that link implies that the only legal MP3 players cost money, and that “all major players on all major operating systems” can play Ogg. The first is incorrect, and the second is just backwards. iTunes is free. Windows Media Player is free. And those are just the most popular of the thousands of MP3 players/encoders (some free, some not) available for every operating system. As far as I know, neither of those programs can play Ogg. The only program on my Mac that can is VLC Player, and I had to find and download that. Wikipedia talk:Sound is full of debate, with holes on both sides of the argument, and I’m just looking for a definitive answer. Is there a reason for this decision that’s based on actual facts? —Frungi 03:15, 4 November 2005 (UTC)


 * If you'd read the text on Media help you'd see instructions for playing Ogg/Vorbis with Windows Media player, I'm not sure with itunes. There is some confusion in your post over the word free. In english we use free in two ways, one to talk about freedom and the other to talk about price. When we say The Free Encyclopedia we are talking about freedom. The content of Wikipedia is free, but it is not free if we put it in a nonfree format. The players you mentioned are not free in the sense of freedom.  The MP3 format is patent encoumbered and can not be legally created with free software, and possibly can not be played with free software. As such, it is unacceptable for our purposes. The Ogg/Vorbis format is free in the sense we require and offers higher quality at a given file size. If your favorite player does not support Vorbis, please ask its maker as vorbis decoding software for many types of hardware are available for inclusion at no cost to them (BSD Licensed). --Gmaxwell 03:35, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Oh, and the post you mentioned is definitive. MP3 is not permitted. --Gmaxwell 03:36, 4 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I meant definitive reasons, not decisions (and anyway, the linked decision contains a bald-faced lie). iTunes and many other programs let you create MP3s from anything it can read that isn’t DRMed. I don’t use WMP, but I assume it has similar capabilities. MP3 playback is much more widely supported than Ogg, which means users are freer in their choice of player (not sure if this fits your definition of free, just throwing it out there). Does the patent on the MP3 format have any restriction on the MP3 files themselves, or does it only apply to the software used to create and play them (which actually is “all major players on all major operating systems”)? If the concern is freedom, why shouldn’t users be free to upload whatever format is convenient for them? Why must only open-source but relatively obscure formats be allowed? I don’t see a problem with allowing the format on the site. No one’s violating any patents, unless Wikipedia tries to develop its own web-based player (which would actually be a great idea for Ogg). —Frungi 04:28, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Suggested bit rate for audio?
Is there a suggested bit rate for ogg audio files? --Fritz S. (Talk) 14:09, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
 * If you are creating samples of copyrighted works, use a quality setting of 0 (~64kbps). A quality setting of 3 is sufficient for nearly everything else, but if necessary, you could use 5 as well. The size-to-quality ratio above 5 isn't really worth it for sound files here. See http://www.vorbis.com/faq/#quality. &#126;MDD4696 02:32, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

How to edit and convert Quicktime to Ogg Theora on Windows
Here's a method for converting Quicktime movies (the only format shot by many types of cameras, including mine) into Ogg Theora videos for upload to Wikipedia. It does require two transcodings (instead of the ideal single-step), but given that I know of no single program capable of converting directly, it will have to do. At some point, I am going to polish this up and put it into this article, but for now, this will have to do


 * 1) Download and install RAD Video Tools
 * 2) Download and install the Quicktime alternative codec
 * 3) Download and install Virtualdub
 * 4) Download ffmpeg2theora
 * 5) Using the Rad video tools, convert the movie from Quicktime (.mov) to uncompressed AVI
 * 6) (Optional) Use Virtualdub to do any necessary editing (such as rotating the video using the "rotate" filter) and save as an uncompressed AVI
 * 7) Use ffmpeg2theora to convert from uncompressed AVI to Ogg theora

I hope some people find this useful. Raul654 06:01, 24 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I recently had to do the same thing. I fortunately have the Pro version of QuickTime player, with an Export function, so here's how you can do it if you have that:
 * Export to MPEG-4. For video, use passthrough (i.e. don't re-sample). I tried AVI export, but that was going nowhere after 15 minutes on a 3GHz machine, so I gave up.
 * Then use ffmpeg2theora, but you may have to use the  flag to manually override the input file's fps setting. For my 60 second video, its overestimation caused it to make it 7 seconds. Just experiment until it becomes the right length. For my Kodak LS743 camera, I needed to use 13 fps.
 * enochlau (talk) 09:34, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Hi, I collected all methods we are using in Commons:Help:Converting video. Please take a look to this message at the Commons Village Pump. Regards, --Colegota 18:26, 28 January 2006 (UTC)