Help talk:IPA/Franco-Provençal

The name of the language
Researchers (such as myself) using Wikipedia will expect articles to use the English names of languages -- as well as countries, cities, and so on. SIL International, the Registration Authority for ISO Standard 639-3:2007, lists this language as name Franco-Provençal, with Arpitan and Patois listed as alternate names. Similarly, and so on.
 * Russki is an alternate name for Russian
 * Français for French
 * Castellano, Castilian, Español for Spanish
 * Beifang Fangyan, Guanhua, Guoyu, Hanyu, Mandarin, Northern Chinese, Putonghua, Standard Chinese for Mandarin Chinese

Franco-Provençal is the established English-language name. -- Thnidu (talk) 21:12, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

Palatalization of /t/ and /d/
If I understand correctly,, , and are mutually exclusive pronunciations for either the same phoneme or the same allophone of  (not sure which, since the note is vague). I think it's confusing to have them on separate rows, we should either pick one of these and go with it or make it very clear which dialects to use. We should also keep them on the same row, as is done at Help:IPA for Portuguese and Galician and Help:IPA for Dutch and Afrikaans. — Æµ§œš¹  [ãːɱ ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɪ̃ə̃nlɪ] 15:03, 3 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Hmm, I'm not proficient at all in Franco-Provençal, but I think the dominant allophones would either be the ch- and dg-like ones, or the sh- and zh-like ones, by what I know about Portuguese (my native language), Occitan and French. I also think it misleading as these sounds in Gallic and Iberian languages are generally palatalizations of /k/ rather than /t/.
 * I based the rhotic thingy on the Help page of IPA for German (and your revert messe up things).
 * The RP onset vowel at the 'aye' diphthong approaches the Romance open 'eh'. At least the RP onset vowel of the lexical set is mid. 177.98.96.111 (talk) 15:59, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Help talk:IPA which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 16:16, 15 July 2017 (UTC)

Improvements
dear Wikipedians who improved this help, I came across some stuff that may help, if you are interested:

I discovered this chapter in a book that looks pretty useful, it's a pity two whole pages of the phonology section are hidden.

This page on frp.wikipedia lists several phonetic realizations, though being an orthographic help it does not explain where and to which extent they are spread.

Still it helped me to look up words on this online Arpitan dictionary (there are also sections where to search from Italian or French) to better infer pronunciations from the following excerpt: it is taken from Enciclopedia Treccani, an authoritative Italian encyclopedia which I often consult. I added some translations, etymologies and plausible IPA transcriptions: as I am not 100% sure about the correspondence between IPA and the systems used here (looks like they used a different one for each variety), I underlined the most dubious sounds. I did not distinguish from, nor had I a precise idea on where a was  and where  (same for  vs ,  vs ).

イヴァン スクルージ 九十八 （会話） 09:20, 14 August 2018 (UTC)


 * (イヴァンスクルージ九十八) Thank you. This will certainly be helpful to anyone who works on this page, including me if I return to it. --Thnidu (talk) 16:36, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
 * What does
 * èeëí [ɛːəˈi]
 * have to do with s, per your note c?:
 * Seriously, no idea how one is supposed to understand this. Does really s sound èe?
 * --Thnidu (talk) 16:43, 14 August 2018 (UTC)


 * I intended the etymological explanation as a means of comparison, so in that case the $⟨s⟩$ is that of Latin secāre (found in parentheses). ;) [[File:Italy.png]] イヴァン スクルージ 九十八 （会話）[[File:Italy.png]] 16:52, 14 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Thanks, but it's still unclear to me. Maybe it's partly due to my small smartphone screen, which forces the entries in your bulleted list of examples to narrow multi-line paragraphs, but it might be well for you to expand that brief efn to be clearer and more explicit. --Thnidu (talk) 17:01, 14 August 2018 (UTC)


 * oh, then I will if it looks unclear. [[File:Italy.png]] イヴァン スクルージ 九十八 （会話）[[File:Italy.png]] 17:03, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Grazie / ありがとう --Thnidu (talk) 17:16, 14 August 2018 (UTC)