Help talk:List

Outline Numbered List
Is there a way to create a list that is numbered as an outline? The list below is formatted how I'd like it (but not automatically numbered):
 * 1. element 1 level 1
 * 1.1. subelement 1 level 2
 * 1.2. subelement 2 level 2
 * 1.2.1. subsubelement 1 level 3
 * 1.3. subelement 3 level 2
 * 2. element 2 level 1

etc.

I know how to do a general list, but that only gives me:
 * 1) element 1 level 1
 * 2) subelement 1 level 2
 * 3) subelement 2 level 2
 * 4) subsubelement 1 level 3
 * 5) subelement 3 level 2
 * 6) element 2 level 1

I know that the table of contents does this automatically, and if the user has the automatic numbering preference enabled, the numbers will appear if each entry is defined as a section heading, but I couldn't find a way to force the numbering to show up either.

Any help is appreciated! Thanks!
 * --Rkausch (talk) 16:54, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Came hear with a same question. Any results, Rkausch? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Skfd (talk • contribs) 13:40, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

same for mew, seems no option even with CSS. TiloWiki (talk) 18:56, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

alphabetically
Is there any way to make a list that uses abc… as bullets instead of numbers or bullets? Without using HTML, i.e: . -- Henriok (talk) 10:28, 25 April 2008 (UTC) 

This template may not have even existed when the question was asked but ...

1. See Template:Ordered list

2. See Template:Ordered list

3. See Template:Ordered list

... in case anyone comes looking her for answers. -- 109.77.223.109 (talk) 04:24, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Question
Is there a way to make a numbered list within a table, to create something like below?

Someone the Person (talk) 22:43, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

If someone does figure this out, make sure to check if sorting would break it (i.e. if you sort by column 2, you don't want it to renumber after it's sorted). Zephalis (talk) 02:05, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Alphabetical
There is no hit on this page for the word "alphabetical". A list should be ordered by date (if particularly significant) or in alphabetical order. Is this not previously considered? ~ R.T.G 18:22, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

1. Item One

2. Item Two

3. Item Three
 * See Template:Ordered list which can do various types of ordered lists including alphabetical lists. -- 109.77.223.109 (talk) 04:24, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Avoiding paragraphs breaking bullet points?
From Help:List, is not clear if it's possible, when a list item has more than one paragraph, to avoid the paragraph change to break the item and the list as well. Starting the paragraphs after the first with ":" instead of "*", gives a different indentation than the first paragraph. Example were is needed: List_of_plagiarism_controversies.--Sum (talk) 11:57, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Question: Linking a list to topics in the article
I've created a bulleted list and now I'd like to link each bullet topic with its corresponding section in the article. How can I do this? Thanks! Scfavrot (talk) 20:38, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
 * See WP:ANCHOR. To create a link to section "Xyz" of article "Abc", the syntax is Abc . To make that look nicer, use a piped link, reader-friendly text goes here . Is that what you have in mind? -- John of Reading (talk) 21:11, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Horizontal lists
Is anyone up for writing a section about the new horizontal lists? I'm not much of a documenter myself. — Edokter  ( talk ) — 22:26, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

What piece of code provides # syntax (removing empty list elements)?
VitaliyFilippov (talk) 16:31, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

The following example works here:


 * 1) Amsterdam
 * 2) Rotterdam
 * 3) The Hague


 * 1) Amsterdam
 * 2) Rotterdam
 * 3) The Hague

But on a vanilla MediaWikis 1.16, 1.18 and trunk the same code produces an empty item before the 9th. Moreover, &lt;/li&gt; is left in the text. I.e. it looks like:


 * 1) Amsterdam&lt;/li&gt;
 * 2) Rotterdam
 * 3) The Hague
 * 1) The Hague

Also I see that in Wikimedia Wikis, empty list elements are removed (see the code, there is an empty list element between phases 1 and 3):


 * 1) Phase 1: Collect underpants
 * 2) Phase 3: PROFIT!!!
 * 1) Phase 3: PROFIT!!!

So, this evidently is how # syntax works. What piece of code (extension or patch) does provide this feature?

VitaliyFilippov (talk) 14:18, 5 March 2012 (UTC) UPDATE: I've found it, it's $wgUseTidy = true; configuration setting. Tidy removes empty list items.

MediaWiki clobbers inline CSS list-style-type for unordered list HTML

 * Looks like MediaWiki clobbers inline CSS for setting unordered list symbol type:
 * HTML:

  Stuff More stuff 
 * Output:

 Stuff More stuff </ul>
 * --173.13.177.204 (talk) 01:13, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

I can't seem to style an unordered list, but an ordered list works. The margin is different. I need to check the stylesheets. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 03:20, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

|mediawiki.legacy.commonPrint%2Cshared|skins.vector&only=styles&skin=vector&* CSS contains:

That explains the margin difference, but I don't understand the intent of setting the style in site CSS. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 03:42, 31 January 2013 (UTC)


 * The Vector (and Monobook/Modern) core skin CSS uses images to style unordered list bullets: Vector-bullet-icon.png and Bullet.png. That is by design (as are the margins).


 * To get a square, you must override the  to  :


 * — Edokter  ( talk ) — 09:39, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks: I knew you were the one to ping on this. I was starting to pick through the other CSS. Why is there a difference in margins? --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 09:53, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Ordered list items have a wider margin to accomodate for (larger) numbers:
 * <ol><li>Item 1</li> Item 9999</li></ol>
 * The margin is twice as wide as those for unordered list items, so you can still line them up with wiki-markup. — Edokter  ( talk ) — 10:01, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Aha! Again thanks.
 * To the original poster: why do you want to change the list-style-type? --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 12:36, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

Alumni of unestablished notability listed for a college
List of Brock University people says it includes notable alumni, but it has only 25 bluelinked names who have their own Wikipedia articles, and about 52 names with no article linked. Some likely would satisfy WP:BIO, but should such a list include mostly names without articles? Is it appropriate to leave them in if some claim to fame is mentioned for them? In lists of "people from a town" the non-bluelink names are typically removed. Edison (talk) 22:03, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
 * This is not the right place to ask this; this page of for technical list issues. — Edokter  ( talk ) — 22:11, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Suggestions as to what the correct forum is? Something beyond "GO AWAY!" would be helpful in improving Wikipedia. Edison (talk) 22:19, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Notability is determined by the list editors, so ask on the article talk page. At List of Eagle Scouts we decided that all entries must have an article- this has cut down on the interminable discussions over whether someone is notable. Other lists just require a citation. --  Gadget850talk 22:41, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

template breaking number list
is there a way to insert a template without breaking the numbered list order?

Example:


 * Steps:


 * 1) step 1


 * 1) step 2


 * 1) * step 2.1


 * 1) step 3




 * 1) step 4


 * 1) step 5

which shows up as:


 * Steps:
 * 1) step 1


 * 1) step 2


 * 1) * step 2.1


 * 1) step 3




 * 1) step 4


 * 1) step 5

instead of:

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.106.197.114 (talk) 14:59, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Steps:
 * 1) step 1
 * 2) step 2
 * 3) * step 2.1
 * 4) step 3
 * 5) step 4
 * 6) step 5
 * 1) step 5
 * see WP:LISTGAP. Frietjes (talk) 15:20, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

Backwards markup
A couple days ago, I wrote a new section concerning (in part) the effects of getting the order wrong in nested list markup—an error that I routinely see from experienced editors on discussion pages. For instance, this is wrong:

# ...



As is this:

* ...

The portions of my contribution concerning this were reverted because “There is documentation”; where is this common error discussed? And is there something we can do to increase its visibility? Also, the same edit summary claims that “nested lists are handled below,” which I don’t believe is the case. —67.14.236.50 (talk) 02:22, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

Also, shouldn’t this be the main page for WP:LISTGAP, rather than vice versa? It’s a matter of properly constructing your lists, not something specific to accessibility. —67.14.236.50 (talk) 04:24, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

Anyway, I’m sure both my prose and examples could be improved. Please do so! But I’m also pretty sure that this is the only place where most of what I’ve added is discussed, and I’m positive that the help page for wikilists should discuss it. Where else would someone look? Maybe Help:Markup, but that page’s section on lists directs readers here (and we should naturally give more information on the subject here than is there). —67.14.236.50 (talk) 04:41, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

SVG Bullet (as of 2016-02-10) doesn't scale properly with text size
I've done some brief searching but haven't found a more appropriate place to mention this. The current svg used for bullet points doesn't scale well.

I use a high-res monitor, and so I usually have Wikipedia zoomed to 200%. At that zoom level, the bullet looks like a period, so the bullet list entries look like: . Some element . Some other element —192.225.213.20 (talk) 22:00, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

Spacing and bullets
The examples all seem to place a space between between the asterisk and first word in a list entry, and AutoEd adds them if they're not there, but is it actually incorrect to not insert a space (as in *Skyscrapers )? I know the bullets will render with an appropriate space either way. I ask because an editor has systematically removed the spaces from certain articles, and this could be an endless back and forth if only one way is "correct".— TAnthonyTalk 19:13, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Both are correct. Some will find that the space makes lists easier to read (while editing). Some automated tools usually add a space for readability. But one shouldn't add/remove spaces wholesale by hand.  19:30, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Great, thanks.— TAnthonyTalk 20:59, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

Replace standard bullet with another character or symbol?
Using the same bullet character for elements and subelements doesn't look very professional. Using an en dash for subelements is an improvement. It can be done like this:

but is there a better way? (The method above doens't provide correct hanging indent when words wrap to the next line.) GPS Pilot (talk) 21:52, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

Question: Two line breaks before a list
Is there a preference for one of the two? --NBarto (talk) 19:53, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

Proposal on overly long entries in lists
Please see: Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Lists

Gist: Add brief advice about what to do about excessively large items in lists, to either WP:Manual of Style/Lists or WP:Summary style. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  23:28, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

Preformatted block in text in a list item
Can a list item be text containing a preformatted block? The objective is to make a list of instructions constituting a procedure to install software. Some of the instructions should include small blocks of code. Thanks, ... PeterEasthope (talk) 01:03, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

RfC on permitting "List of foo" mainspace titles to redirect to categories instead
Please see: Wikipedia talk:Stand-alone lists — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  06:49, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

Requesting help
Could someone please get me going on number this list with # signs instead of typing in the actual numbers? If something is added or deleted, then the # signs keep the numbers in order. I have tried so many things before requesting help here. Thank you--Wyn.junior (talk) 18:46, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Omit first number in list
I need to make a list with headings or categories. I want the items of the list counted, but not the categories. I know how to do this for lists, except for a start. It seems that the first item in a list gets numbered even when I use the semicolon to indicate that I do not want this.

See the example at meta:Wiki99/agriculture or this portion here
 * 1) ;Plant food crops
 * 2) ;livestock
 * 1) ;Plant food crops
 * 2) ;livestock
 * 1) ;livestock
 * 1) ;livestock
 * 1) ;livestock

Note that item 1 gets a number, when I do not want this. The subsequent list headings get no numbers, which is correct. There seems to be a coding difference for first items. Does anyone know how I should bypass this? If anyone reads this, checks it out, and does not know what to do, can you post here to say that you understand but do not have advice? Thanks.  Blue Rasberry  (talk)  17:29, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

Adapting nested lists to mobile
Please take a look at a page with nested lists like this on your mobile phone.

Sub-bullet-points currently cause the text to move to the right so that it's barely readable on small screens, with only very little space for the text that is squished to the right.

Example:


 * COVID-19 pandemic
 * COVID-19 pandemic in India
 * Content

Previously, I suggested the following solution for it here:


 * COVID-19 pandemic → COVID-19 pandemic in India
 * Content

The problem with that is that there may be multiple sub-bullet-points beneath a (sub-)bullet-point.

Which solution do you suggest or prefer?

Nested lists probably have to adapt to the mobile display by getting displayed differently in the mobile view (en.m.wikipedia) at least if it detected a small screen or a mobile device in general. If you can't think of a solution you could see how other sites have solved similar problems or display nested contents. One possible solution would be simply displaying the nested header above the content (either view these sub-bullet-points or treestyle view that could look similar to or even use Template:Category tree). I'll try to think of more possible solutions and/or more details for this approach (e.g. tiles). After the discussion here there should be a task on Phabricator for it.

Making things readable on mobile devices is getting more important as an increasing share of readers accesses the site via mobile phones. Many large websites go so far as to implement a "mobile first" approach to their site's design – the mobile view should not be neglected.

--Prototyperspective (talk) 09:52, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I have a small mobile phone screen (iPhone SE first generation), and that page looks fine to me. I have to scroll to the right just a bit, because the text exceeds the screen width by about 5 or 10 percent, but that could probably be fixed in the wikitext of the Portal page. Do you have a screen shot of this undesirable rendering? – Jonesey95 (talk) 13:31, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
 * My experience is like Jonesey's (LG G5). A better solution in this kind of case would probably just be to reduce the indent of a list item using the global stylesheet, but I know that Mediawiki:Mobile.css has that big note that says "render slow if use", so YMMV as to acceptability. :^)
 * That said, my assertion is that these kinds of issues impact fairly few pages. Most lists are perhaps 1st or 2nd level, with only indices and their like going further than that in the mainspace. I'm not sure this is a problem that needs solving, if indeed it is a problem. --Izno (talk) 13:56, 7 October 2020 (UTC)


 * The above example and most entries on that page look fairly fine on my side too: it's items with many sub-bullet-points that have the text crammed into only a fifth or so of the display-width. For example see "Health and environment" of October 6 on the page linked above. I could attach a screenshot later but it should also occur with your mobile devices and browsers.
 * If the problem only occurs for lists with 3 or more levels of nesting it would still require a solution. The page given as an example alone is important enough and/or viewed in numbers high enough that warrants solving this asap. There could also be an improvised, temporary solution. Reducing the list indentation on mobile, especially for more than 3-level-nested lists, is a good suggestion.
 * --Prototyperspective (talk) 14:44, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
 * We are saying that we don't see a problem. Please upload a screen shot from your mobile device illustrating the problem, and let us know what phone/OS/browser combination you are using. – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:06, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Screenshot on the right: Wikipedia nested list not adapted to mobile.jpg. The text should not be crammed to the right but use the full or almost-full width of the already small screen width.]] --Prototyperspective (talk) 16:01, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
 * That looks reasonable to me. And you don't even need to scroll horizontally, you lucky person. – Jonesey95 (talk) 17:06, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't see a problem either. Nardog (talk) 08:39, 8 October 2020 (UTC)


 * I think that this is ignoring a problem. You have not explained why it's not a problem to you. It might not be very bad in terms of Wikipedia's mobile UI but my post was about raising its standards for mobile support to a level that's appropriate for a website that's one of the world's largest. You won't see things like this in comparably large websites. And for good reason. It's bad UI design and bad UX. I doubt that you are webdevelopers and think that it's only your unfounded and, in terms of at least readership, minority opinions. --Prototyperspective (talk) 10:25, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
 * A five-bullet-deep block of text is taking up more than half of the space available to it (on my screen, the screenshot shows the text block at 141 pixels wide inside a 278-pixel light-blue-bordered box). I would have actually expected worse. If you are still concerned that the screen shot at the right is less than ideal, I recommend having a discussion on that portal page's talk page about limiting the level of bullet nesting that is allowable. Also, please find a comparably large web site that renders five levels of bullets in a better way; that might help us see how things could be done better. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:54, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

Citations in a list
I'm not sure if this is the best place to make this inquiry, but here goes... We're dealing with a list of Founding Fathers, composed of more than 150 names, most of them members of the Continental Congress, and are referred to as such because they were involved in the drafting and debates involving documents like the Articles of Confederation, the Continental Association and the U.S. Constitution. Since there are many sources that refer to the Continental Congress members and/or major revolutionary leaders, as those who were involved in the founding process, or as Founding Fathers, which actually is a modern figure of speech, do we still need to provide a specific citation that spells out that exact phrase for every individual in the list? Or would it suffice to provide general sourcing which explicitly outlines the involvements of the Continental Congress as a whole, in the drafting, debates, signing, all involved in the founding. i.e.Must we provide a source that says Founding Father, verbatim, for every one of the 150 names? -- Gwillhickers (talk) 19:50, 19 May 2022 (UTC) ( This inquiry was also posted on the Wikipedia talk:Citing sources page. )

RFC about properly making a list of coups
See Talk:List of coups and coup attempts.&#32;Anythingyouwant (talk) 05:31, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

Possible Issue with Visual Editor
Partially copied from Wikipedia talk:VisualEditor

I know that there are limitations with Visual Editor but I've started to notice it acting weird sometimes. If imputing bullet points manually in VE, users can create multiple different bullet "charts" which don't merge into a single "chart" (Example of how it looks). I'm not 100% on this and it may have been down to a mistake on my behalf, but nevertheless, I have fixed all the ones affected in source mode. DiscoA340 (talk) 14:22, 2 May 2023 (UTC)