MediaWiki talk:Edittools/Archive 2

Make sure
Before complaining, make sure:
 * 1) You have javascript enabled.
 * 2) You are using Monobook (not sure what it looks like in other skins).
 * 3) You have gone to MediaWiki:Monobook.js and hit CTRL+F5 to refresh.

The box should be smaller than the previous character box, not a giant list. If it looks like a giant list to you, you need to do one or all of the above. &mdash; 0918 BRIAN &bull; 2006-01-13 14:47


 * Objection. If it depends on Javascript to become small, you are doing something wrong. If it only works on one skin (because you didn't add the code to the other skins), you are doing something wrong. If it flickers while loading (as this one does), you did something wrong. Also, did you look at the size of the code this generates? This part of the edit page is huge, and you just bloated it even more. Think of the people on dialup (it's not as uncommon as you might want to think it is).
 * A fix to both the dependency on Javascript and the flicker would be to, instead of displaying everything first and then hiding almost all of it, already hide everything but the first page by default. This of course means one needs Javascript to use the other pages, but then this whole thing already needs Javascript to insert the tags.
 * A fix to everything else, including the bloat, would be to create the box dynamically instead of loading it even for the ones who do not have Javascript enabled.
 * --cesarb 15:16, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm fine with your suggestions. Can you code these? I don't know javascript. I only copied and pasted this from the French Wikipedia. If there's "something wrong" with it, please fix it. &mdash; 0918 BRIAN &bull; 2006-01-13 15:27
 * For people not using javascript or monobook, they can add to their CSS file the following:
 * .speciallang, .specialbasic {display:none}
 * That will cause nothing but the first line to load. &mdash; 0918 BRIAN &bull; 2006-01-13 15:30
 * People should not have to do that. If that's the chosen solution, you should add it to every skin's CSS (there is a list at Mediawiki talk:Common.css. Obviously, the best solution would be to change every skin's Javascript (since there's no common JS). --cesarb 01:02, 14 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Why does this depend on javascript now? What if you use a non java script browser or sirf with js disabled? Mike 16:39, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
 * It always depended on javascript. The characters would never insert without javascript. &mdash; 0918 BRIAN &bull; 2006-01-13 16:40
 * But before, even without Javascript or CSS, the box was small, instead of being a huge monstrosity. Some browsers have neither Javascript nor CSS, and Wikipedia should work fine on them. --cesarb 01:04, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
 * It's not a huge monstrosity anymore, and it doesn't flicker anymore. People who don't have javascript or monobook only see one line. &mdash; 0918 BRIAN &bull; 2006-01-14 01:10
 * You seem to be forgetting the people who have neither javascript nor CSS, since your hiding is CSS-based. --cesarb 01:19, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Could you check out my code below and let me know if it might help? Nevermind, it won't. The only way to keep the special character boxes from showing at all would be to add them via javascript entirely (presumably anyone with javascript turned on likely also has CSS?).. —Locke Cole • t • c 03:53, 14 January 2006 (UTC) —Locke Cole • t • c 05:20, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Other symbols
Do you think we could add a section for other commonly-used Unicode symbols, such as ← ↑ → ↓ and ♠ ♣ ♦ ♥ ?

--  Denelson83  07:15, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Mistaken Removal
I'm a bit concerned about the text that was removed in this edit, which I just noticed. The following text was removed:


 * You are encouraged to create and improve articles. The community is quick to enforce the quality standards on all articles.
 * You must cite the sources for your edits so others can verify your work.

Dan100 said the the link to "cite sources" was a duplicate, but now at least, there is no replacement. I also think the top line should be kept in some form. While changes are being made, it is incorrect to say that "Only public domain resources can be copied exactly—this does not include most web pages." It would be better to say that "Only public domain resources can be copied without permission—this does not include most web pages." Superm401 | Talk 20:37, 13 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Let me do this incrementally...well, here's the first one . The other changes, I can't figure out what should be done, so I'll just leave it like this for now. --HappyCamper 14:56, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay. Don't forget about it.  I think a mention of citing sources is most important. Superm401 | Talk 21:21, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Request
This new version looks good! I have two request though. Could the drop down box default to Latin/Roman and the superscript number be removed from special characters. You should use  for those, and the special characters take up two lines at 1024x768 right now. Cheers, R.Koot 20:53, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Would it be possible to allow users to set a default through preferences?--cj | talk 16:26, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
 * And I would prefer that Greek be the first choice, but for most editors, the wiki syntax will be what they're wanting. I'll remove the superscript numbers and add undefined to the wiki options. &mdash; 0918 BRIAN &bull; 2006-01-13 20:57
 * IMHO superscript 1 2 and 3 should stay. they are generally the neatest way to do units involving squares etc and are much less likely to screw up line formatting than html superscripts. the other superscript numbers though shouldn't be there (and aren't at the moment) because they have very poor support. Plugwash 01:13, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
 * We've got some semi-working javascript that stores your last used charset in a cookie. See below, as well as User:Locke Cole/edittoolstest.html (for the code) and User:Locke Cole/monobook.js (for a work-in-progress test that is working right now). —Locke Cole • t • c 17:12, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Correction needed
On mine at least the dropdown box has Hawaiian and German switched. That is, they're out of alphabetical order, but also, selecting Hawaiian gives you the characters for German (ÄäÖößÜü) while selecting German gives you the characters for Hawaiian (ĀāĒēĪīŌōŪʻ). --Angr ( tɔk ) 01:30, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Oops. Should be fixed now. You may have to refresh MediaWiki:Monobook.js by pressing CTRL+F5. &mdash; 0918 BRIAN &bull; 2006-01-14 01:57

Dynamic dropdown box
Looking at the code at MediaWiki:Monobook.js I wasn't at all impressed by the fact that the dropdown box entries were hardcoded. So I came up with a solution that seems to work fine in both Internet Explorer 6.0 as well as Firefox 1.5. For the moment, I'd like to get feedback on how the code behaves in other peoples browsers before rewriting the code at MediaWiki:Monobook.js to support this. With that in mind, here's the code—


 * Code moved to http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Locke_Cole/edittoolstest.html&oldid=35191950

As you can see, it gets the names for the entires in the dropdown box from the ID's of each  attribute within. I don't know if it's possible to get/save cookies via javascript, but there may also be a way to allow users to define their default charset (just set a variable in your user-space monobook.js and call ).

Anyways, save the code above locally in a file (for example: ), then browse to it in the browser you want to test in (for example:  ) and give it a whirl. Please let me know if you have any errors/problems (and comments of course as well). =) —Locke Cole • t • c 03:50, 14 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, it is possible to get/set cookies via Javascript. --cesarb 20:10, 14 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks. =) I got the cookie issue mostly solved (still need to come up with a better place to save it though. The only problem I'm having right now is with setting the selected entry when loading the cookie value (see User:Locke Cole/edittoolstest.html as well as further below for some more discussion). The code works fine in Firefox 1.5, but fails (well, doesn't work anyways, no errors are generated) in IE 6.0. If you have any experience with HTML/Javascript, another set of eyes would be most welcome. =) —Locke Cole • t • c 22:02, 14 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, I do have experience with HTML/DOM/CSS/Javascript, and unfortunately also some experience with IE's implementation of them (it's a pain). Try setting the  attribute on the DOM node for the   elements, instead of just using  . --cesarb 22:45, 14 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Awesome, works like a champ now in IE 6.0 and Firefox 1.5. Thankyou. =) Does the code (here) look okay to you otherwise? —Locke Cole • t • c 23:26, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

remembering selection
how hard would it be to modify this box so the section selected was sticky between edits? Plugwash 20:19, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
 * You would either need some sort of cookie for that, or a setting that you could put in your personal Monobook.js, but I don't know how to do any of that. &mdash; 0918 BRIAN &bull; 2006-01-14 20:21
 * I have a hacked up version of the code I posted above that uses a cookie to save/restore your setting (sadly, it's saved each time you modify the drop down box, not when you preview/post), but, it doesn't work in Internet Explorer (seems IE doesn't like you setting the selectedIndex at certain points...). If someone has some insight into why IE doesn't like this, I might be able to fix it. (I might paste some code later as I did above, though the lack of comment on that is disconcerting). I'd rather save the cookie when someone presses "Save page", "Show preview" or "Show changes", so if there's a way to hook that (as well as the associated Alt+xxx shortcuts), I'm all ears. —Locke Cole • t • c 20:47, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Just use onsubmit. Where's your hacked up version? Superm401 | Talk 21:31, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I'll take a look, but I was wondering which MediaWiki message had the buttons themselves as well. And here's the hacked-up version (made a userspace page rather than spamming this talk page). Again, this only works in Firefox (and I've only tested it in 1.5), it does not work (fully, anyways) in Internet Explorer 6.0. I also placed my old version (from above) there, it's in the edit history, so you can do a diff and see the changes. —Locke Cole • t • c 21:58, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks to CesarB (above), the restoration of the saved setting now seems to work in IE 6 (and already worked and continues to work in Firefox 1.5). As I'd like to get any potential bugs worked out prior to attempting to implement this, I'd appreciate it if everyone (with even a small knowledge of HTML/DOM/CSS/Javascript) could look at the code (here) and comment on it (even if said comment is just "looks good to me").
 * BTW, I noticed your changes (adding code to support onsubmit), thanks to you as well. =) One question though: is it wise to use global variables like that instead of function-local variables? —Locke Cole • t • c 23:31, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
 * The only global variables I used were handles for objects. Any function could get those handles on its own.  Mine just saves them the lines. I can't see a security problem; I think globals are appropriate in this case because several functions need access. Superm401 | Talk 23:44, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, the first onsubmit syntax doesn't work at all. However, it should be fine now in either browser. Superm401 | Talk 23:56, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
 * It's better to recompute these handles on each function, and avoid having them as globals, because new globals can conflict with user javascript. Recomputing them is very fast, and it's not a performance-critical code. --cesarb 00:09, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
 * As with CesarB my concern was less with security and more with potential variable name conflicts. I'll need to take a look to double check on CesarB's comment that the code isn't called often enough to make a difference, but if so, I'll likely change back to function-local variables to both reduce the chance of a conflict, and make the code easier to move around without things breaking. =) One other concern I have: since we're hooking onsubmit in the code, is it possible for something else to hook onsubmit and make our call not fire? Is there a friendly-way to hook onsubmit and call anything else that hooked it (for this, I suspect, we'd want to use a global var to save the original value of onsubmit, and call to it after we do our own work; as a chain, basically)? —Locke Cole • t • c 00:29, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
 * It's the onsubmit of something that didn't exist before; nobody else will be playing with it. If you think people will want to play with it, you can add something like addOnloadHook from Mediawiki:Monobook.js (see for instance WikiProject User scripts/Scripts/Fix diff width to see it in action). --cesarb 00:40, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, addOnloadHook is in Wikibits (is that accessible onwiki?). Alternatively, you can use addEventListener (Firefox) or attachEvent (IE).  That's annoying, because you have to fork the code.  addOnloadHook is the way to go.  As for the globals, it's fine to recalculate them. Superm401 | Talk 01:31, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Check out User:Locke Cole/monobook.js if you'd like to try the code live (I've sectioned off the code in use from the other stuff in my userspace monobook.js). It's not quite in sync with what's at User:Locke Cole/edittoolstest.html, so keep that in mind. —Locke Cole • t • c 03:26, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

If you can get this working, I'm in favor of adding this feature. It would reduce the time to find what you are (most likely) looking for, and encourage more character sets to be added, since most people will not have to repeatedly search through a long list to find their set. &mdash; 0918 BRIAN &bull; 2006-01-15 00:03
 * Agreed. I'm going to let the code sit for at least a day so hopefully anyone with concerns or comments can get a chance to chime in, and then we'll see about having it implemented (and if it breaks then, we can always revert back, but everything looks good to me so far (again noting general Javascript non-expertness)). —Locke Cole • t • c 00:29, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
 * You should also test it first in your user javascript and see if it works. Pay attention to Firefox's Javascript console &mdash; it should show no new errors. --cesarb 00:40, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Aye, in fact this is what I've been doing for the past hour or so, heh. Check out User:Locke Cole/monobook.js where I have code that you can copy/paste and try yourself. Note that there were/are some issues with the ID attribute being mangled (a "/" (forward slash) gets turned into ".2F"), and I've included some regular expressions to get around this. The code there is not quite in sync with what's at User:Locke Cole/edittoolstest.html, so you might want to fiddle with that as well. Comments welcome; if you try it, let me know how it works out for you. =) —Locke Cole • t • c 03:26, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Drop-down not immediately apparent
Suggestion: can you please make the diacritic drop-down box say something very clearly like "More special characters"? This would seem to be the only way that all editors will know where to find them. At the very least, change the text at the top of the drop-down menu from "Wiki" to something like "Latin" and move it up one line to where it says "Special characters," as in English Wiktionary. Right now it just is not easy to tell (even for experienced editors like myself) how to get the diacritics and characters now missing from the former list. Also, those of you working here should know that there have been a lot of questions about the "missing" diacritics for several days now on many pages across Wikipedia, including the Village Pump, which nobody has answered. It would be very magnanimous of you if, when making sweeping changes like this, you would check these pages to answer such questions. Badagnani 09:00, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay, I added a line saying "Browse the drop-down menu for more special characters." I just looked through Village pump (technical) and couldn't find any questions about this that had gone unanswered. I'll leave a general note there, though. --Angr ( tɔk ) 09:30, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Excellent--this is greatly appreciated. Thanks for all your hard work on this. I think the drop-down menu (as it has existed on English Wiktionary) is better than the big giant list of characters even if it does mean an extra click of the mouse. Badagnani 09:39, 15 January 2006 (UTC)


 * The menu doesn't appear in the classic skin (although the "see menu for more" text does show up). Is there a way to add the menu to the common.css rather than have it only in the monobook.js? -- Rick Block (talk) 17:49, 15 January 2006 (UTC)


 * It's written in javascript, so it can't just be copied to css. The other skins don't automatically check for or load their MediaWiki:Skin.js file, so it's not that easy. You'll have to copy the content that I pasted at MediaWiki:Standard.js into your User:Rick Block/standard.js file. Then save and CTRL+F5 on that file, and it might work. I haven't tested it out though. &mdash; 0918 BRIAN &bull; 2006-01-15 18:03
 * Actually, it's not even that simple. Copy all of the contents of User:Brian0918/standard.js to your User:Rick Block/standard.js. --  BRIAN  0918 18:16, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Now it's back to how it was before: it is not apparent to most users what the drop-down menu is for. Please consider changing the top menu option, "Wiki" (nobody knows what means) to "More special characters." This makes perfect sense and, seeing that, everyone will know what to do to find the extra characters. Badagnani 19:51, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

I see now; it says "See menu for more" in a very tiny font, at the end of the *previous* line. That's no good; even I missed it. It doesn't say more what, it's not located near the menu; the menu is not described (which menu? the drop-down menu?). Please consider the above suggestions so nobody can have a shadow of a doubt of where to find the characters. These are big changes you're making and you need to think every step of the way about transitioning greatest ease of use by all editors. Badagnani 19:59, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
 * It's also possible to over-think about something... I'll change "Wiki" to "More characters". &mdash; 0918 BRIAN &bull; 2006-01-15 20:05

Comment from English Wikipedia
I left the following comment at English Wikipedia. User:Angr suggested posting here.

The changes to the special characters bar make it hard to get to characters needed for typing articles on Japan. Every time I edit an article, it's necessary to select from the drop-down menu before the characters I want appear. Worse, my selection doesn't remain in effect when I click on Show preview or return to editing after Show preview. Is there a way to get around this? I want the characters that are on the "Romaji" menu selection to replace the European special characters, which I seldom use. Fg2 07:11, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
 * People are working on it. See . Superm401 | Talk 09:43, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks, it'll be greatly appreciated. Fg2 09:48, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

useful link
This site contains several PDF files with the alphabets of European languages. —Ruud 13:01, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Language bit needs to be in separate javascript file
According to the devs, the language section should be called from a separate javascript file "so that it can be cached efficiently." Can someone work on this ASAP? Thanks.

The next step will be to split each language into their own javascript files, to "make it download on demand", as Tim Starling put it. But the first step that needs to be done is to put the whole lot in a separate javascript file. &mdash; 0918 BRIAN &bull; 2006-01-15 16:04

Confused
The current version says: (see menu for more). Uh, call me dense, but: what menu? android 79  17:55, 15 January 2006 (UTC)


 * It's only available for monobook with javascript enabled. If you don't have monobook, copy the contents of User:Brian0918/standard.js to your own userpage-skin's javascript page. If you're using Cologne Blue, it's User:Android79/cologneblue.js. You can find out what it's called by viewing a page source and searching for .js --  BRIAN  0918 18:15, 15 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Maybe it's not really obvious that "menu" refers to the drop-down menu in the next line. --Angr ( tɔk ) 18:16, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
 * At this point, if it's not obvious, people might consider not contributing to Wikipedia :) &mdash; 0918 BRIAN &bull; 2006-01-15 18:30


 * If someone needs to do JavaScript-fu to get the menu to show up in the first place, I think that needs to be explained somewhere in the box. android  79  18:21, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
 * You need javascript enabled to be able to insert any of the special characters anyways.... &mdash; 0918 BRIAN &bull; 2006-01-15 18:28
 * That's beside the point. There's a difference between Newbie User having JavaScript installed, and Newbie User being able to copy stuff into his .js page. android  79  18:35, 15 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I copied the script into User:Android79/monobook.js; no worky. android  79  18:24, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Are you using Monobook? If you are, make sure you have javascript enabled. &mdash; 0918 BRIAN &bull; 2006-01-15 18:29
 * Monobook; JavaScript is working. android  79  18:35, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
 * You don't need to copy it into your user/monobook.js page if you are using Monobook. It will work already. I don't know why it doesn't work for you, that's a new one. &mdash; 0918 BRIAN &bull; 2006-01-15 18:42
 * I'm also using Monobook, and JavaScript works, but like Android79, it doesn't work for me either. There's no menu or way to access a menu anywhere in the box. I can copy-paste stuff from Word like I usually do anyway, so it doesn't really matter, but just wanted to let people know. Although I suppose I could just be dense and not noticing something obvious... --Whimemsz 23:31, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Do you only see the "Special characters" box, and not the "More characters" box immediately below it? Are you able to click on any of those characters, and have it appear in the edit box? &mdash; 0918 BRIAN &bull; 2006-01-15 23:36
 * Um...weird. Now it works. I have no idea what the hell happened, but...now the "more characters" box does show up right below the special characters box (it didn't before). --Whimemsz 00:12, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
 * The Edittools file is getting rather large (over 15KB now), so maybe it didn't fully download before, and you hit Stop before it was downloaded, or something... I don't know. &mdash; 0918 BRIAN &bull; 2006-01-16 00:17

More suggestions
On Wikisource in special characters we use extra fractions 1/3, 2/3, 1/8, 3/8, 5/8, 7/8, plus extra mathematical ones like Sigma and Infinity. Can we have these please? Also, we are in process of establishing a range of standard templates for text navigation. (References and notes, chapter headings and the like.) It would be useful to have a specific Wikisource edit bar with these templates on. How do we go about customsing for this, please. Apwoolrich 21:33, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Extra fractions added. --  Denelson83  23:15, 15 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Many thanks. Apwoolrich 08:06, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

another item for the Wiki functions
Do you think we can add "class="wikitable"". I feel it is a common line that people write in the article to make a table. It must be as common, if not more common, compared to many of the "more characters". Cmdrbond 02:51, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I've never written it :) &mdash; 0918 BRIAN &bull; 2006-01-16 02:56


 * Yeah, but first we'd need to have some functions for inserting the tables themselves, wouldn't we? Or wouldn't it just be better to refer users to the Editing Help page, which we can modify to mention "wikitable"? – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 05:02, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

== Technical question:


 * I mean, how could I add these edittools to my own wiki. &mdash;Simetrical (talk • contribs) 06:11, 16 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Just copy-paste the source of this message, but install the Charinsert extension prior to that. -- Filip ( talk ) 14:51, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Ah, thanks. &mdash;Simetrical (talk • contribs) 02:10, 17 January 2006 (UTC)


 * How do i add "edittools" to the System messages of my wiki? --Der Papst 00:37, 22 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Other way to ask : I've tried to install it on a Mediawiki 1.5.6 : should I use the CharInsert 1.5 version instead of 1.6 ? Because it doesn't work if I only do what Filip said (what I did in fact : put CharInsert.php on my extensions file, declare it on LocalSettings.php, copy-paste MediaWiki:Edittools on my wiki, after that the "MediaWiki:Edittools" page works but isn't inserted on edit pages, even after a hard refresh). Thanks for help --Henrique Diaz 16:03, 19 March 2006 (UTC)


 * That is exactly what i've asked. You have to add edittools to the wiki systemmessages and link it on the edit page but i've no idea how to add and how to link. --Der Papst 19:58, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
 * If I understood correctly, you cannot use this feature because there is no edittools page in your installations. If so, just copy the content to your Copyrightnotice MediaWiki message. -- Filip  ( § ) 20:50, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Right, there is no edittools in my installation. is there a way to add it or does it only exist in MediaWiki 1.6? --Der Papst 11:23, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

I just battled this one out, not understanding a durn word anybody here was saying. Let me see if I can make this more clear...

At the begining of the LocalSettings.php file is a group of statements that are considerably more code like than anywhere else in that file. I got it working on mine by putting the following statement: include($IP."/extensions/CharInsert.php"); on the line after require_once( "includes/DefaultSettings.php" );. I obtained and saved a copy of CharInsert.php (v1.6 incidently), and placed it in my extentions folder. I searched for the page "MediaWiki:Edittools" and created it, placing in that page the contents of what I see when I view the MediaWiki:Edittools on another Wiki. There also was some playing around with monobook.js, that in retrospect wasn't probably absoluately neccisary, but I started this fools errand at a wiki that had a drop down menu that was to select the character set to display down there.... anyway. Bleh. --RSP/DrkNexus/Auron 72.129.16.20 05:36, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Symbol suggestions
These are all the symbols listed by the Unicode Consortium as Mathematical Operators that exist in the Arial Unicode MS font:

±×÷∀∁∂∃∄∅∆∇∈∉∊∋∌∍∎∏∐∑−∓∔∕∖∗∘∙√∛∜∝∞∟∠∡∢∣∤∥∦∧∨∩∪∫∬∭∮∯∰∱∲∳∴∵∶∷∸∹∺∻∼∽∾∿≀≁≂≃≄≅≆≇≈≉≊≋≌≍≎≏≐≑≒≓≔≕≖≗≘≙≚≛≜≝≞≟≠≡≢≣≤≥≦≧≨≩≪≫≬≭≮≯≰≱≲≳≴≵≶≷≸≹≺≻≼≽≾≿⊀⊁⊂⊃⊄⊅⊆⊇⊈⊉⊊⊋⊌⊍⊎⊏⊐⊑⊒⊓⊔⊕⊖⊗⊘⊙⊚⊛⊜⊝⊞⊟⊠⊡⊢⊣⊤⊥⊦⊧⊨⊩⊪⊫⊬⊭⊮⊯⊰⊱⊲⊳⊴⊵⊶⊷⊸⊹⊺⊻⊼⊽⊾⊿⋀⋁⋂⋃⋄⋅⋆⋇⋈⋉⋊⋋⋋⋌⋍⋎⋏⋐⋑⋒⋓⋔⋕⋖⋗⋘⋙⋚⋛⋜⋝⋞⋟⋠⋡⋢⋣⋤⋥⋦⋧⋨⋩⋪⋫⋬⋭⋮⋯⋰⋱

These are all the Latin symbols, excluding IPA and parenthesized symbols:

ªºÀÁÂÃÄÅÆÇÈÉÊËÌÍÎÏÐÑÒÓÔÕÖØÙÚÛÜÝÞßàáâãäåæçèéêëìíîïðñòóôõöøùúûüýþÿĀāĂăĄąĆćĈĉĊċČčĎďĐđĒēĔĕĖėĘęĚěĜĝĞğĠġĢģĤĥĦħĨĩĪīĬĭĮįİıĲĳĴĵĶķĸĹĺĻļĽľĿŀŁłŃńŅņŇňŉŊŋŌōŎŏŐőŒœŔŕŖŗŘřŚśŜŝŞşŠšŢţŤťŦŧŨũŪūŬŭŮůŰűŲųŴŵŶŷŸŹźŻżŽžſƀƁƂƃƄƅƆƇƈƉƊƋƌƍƎƏƐƑƒƓƔƕƖƗƘƙƚƛƜƝƞƟƠơƢƣƤƥƦƧƨƩƪƫƬƭƮƯưƱƲƳƴƵƶƷƸƹƺƻƼƽƾƿǀǁǂǃǄǅǆǇǈǉǊǋǌǍǎǏǐǑǒǓǔǕǖǗǘǙǚǛǜǝǞǟǠǡǢǣǤǥǦǧǨǩǪǫǬǭǮǯǰǱǲǳǴǵǺǻǼǽǾǿȀȁȂȃȄȅȆȇȈȉȊȋȌȍȎȏȐȑȒȓȔȕȖȗḀḁḂḃḄḅḆḇḈḉḊḋḌḍḎḏḐḑḒḓḔḕḖḗḘḙḚḛḜḝḞḟḠḡḢḣḤḥḦḧḨḩḪḫḬḭḮḯḰḱḲḳḴḵḶḷḸḹḺḻḼḽḾḿṀṁṂṃṄṇṈṉṊṋṌṍṎṏṐṑṒṓṔṕṖṗṘṙṚṛṜṝṞṟṠṡṢṣṤṥṦṧṨṩṪṫṬṭṮṯṰṱṲṳṴṵṶṷṸṹṺṻṼṽṾṿẀẁẂẃẄẅẆẇẈẉẊẋẌẍẎẏẐẑẒẓẔẕẖẗẘẙẚẛẠạẢảẤấẦầẨẩẪẫẬậẮắẰằẲẳẴẵẶặẸẹẺẻẼẽẾếỀềỂểỄễỆệỈỉỊịỌọỎỏỐốỒồỔổỖỗỘộỚớỜờỞởỠỡỢợỤụỦủỨứỪừỬửỮữỰựỲỳỴỵỶỷỸỹﬀﬁﬂﬃﬄﬅﬆＡＢＣＤＥＦＧＨＩＪＫＬＭＮＯＰＱＲＳＴＵＶＷＸＹＺａｂｃｄｅｆｇｈｉｊｋｌｍｎｏｐｑｒｓｔｕｖｗｘｙｚ

Here are the Hebrew characters (mostly diacritics, note the spaces I put in between each):

֑ ֒ ֓ ֔ ֕ ֖ ֗ ֘ ֙ ֚ ֛ ֜ ֝ ֞ ֟ ֠ ֡ ֣ ֤ ֥ ֦ ֧ ֨ ֩ ֪ ֫ ֬ ֭ ֮ ֯ ְ ֱ ֲ ֳ ִ ֵ ֶ ַ ָ ֹ ֻ ּ ֽ־ ֿ ׀ ׁ ׂ ׃ ׄ א ב ג ד ה ו ז ח ט י ך כ ל ם מ ן נ ס ע ף פ ץ צ ק ר ש ת װ ױ ײ ׳ ״ ﬞ ײַ ﬠ ﬡ ﬢ ﬣ ﬤ ﬥ ﬦ ﬧ ﬨ ﬩ שׁ שׂ שּׁ שּׂ אַ אָ אּ בּ גּ דּ הּ וּ זּ טּ יּ ךּ כּ לּ מּ נּ סּ ףּ פּ צּ קּ רּ שּ תּ וֹ בֿ כֿ פֿ ﭏ

There are, of course, plenty more alphabets to add. Just take a look at a character map. &mdash;Simetrical (talk • contribs) 06:10, 16 January 2006 (UTC)


 * First we have to work out how to load the whole thing in a separate javascript file, and then load each language in their own files, so that they are only downloaded on demand. Otherwise, we start slowing down the site, since the current file is already over 15KB in size. &mdash; 0918 BRIAN &bull; 2006-01-16 06:14
 * Yeah, I agree. Having some of the most commonly needed symbols and letters is fine, having every single Unicode character available for direct insertion isn't. Moderation is called for here. --Angr ( tɔk ) 06:17, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Once the languages are broken down into their own files, I would be fine with expansive lists of characters, as long as they can be neatly displayed. &mdash; 0918 BRIAN &bull; 2006-01-16 06:24

The languages list is getting cluttered. Related languages often use a similar set of symbols. We could have "Slavic", "Semitic" and/or "Latin diacritics" rather than Hawaiian (mostly macrons), Catalan (acutes, diareses) and all that. It will be difficult to find an optimal solution, but I am convinced the list is bound to be clogged up with people adding lots of languages using slightly different diacritics. Note, for example, how I combined Indo-European with IAST (Sanskrit). Similarly, Arabic and Hebrew could be combined into "Semitic", featuring both alphabets plus all symbols used for romanized Semitic. dab (&#5839;) 17:33, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Emoticons
Any chance of adding those pesky emoticons to the list? —Phil | Talk 09:38, 17 January 2006 (UTC) Nooo! O_o dab (&#5839;) 12:03, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Characters won't insert at all on Safari?
With the old system, the inserts worked great. Now on the new one, when I click on a character, nothing happens. It does not appear in the edit box, and the edit box loses focus. I have javascript turned on, using monobook, and the menu does appear (and function). I don't have OS X 10.4 though, but it is the newest version of Safari on 10.3, which a lot of people still use. pfahlstrom 20:00, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Will any of the characters from the "Special characters" block, which is above the menu'd section insert? (such as: € £ ¥ $ ¢ © ®) &mdash; 0918 BRIAN &bull; 2006-01-16 20:03
 * No. It doesn't matter if they're the characters that are always there or the characters that appear via the menu; exactly the same thing happens (text field loses focus, and no character appears). pfahlstrom 01:09, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I would suggest posting on the technical village pump, or on the wikitech-l mailing list. &mdash; 0918 BRIAN &bull; 2006-01-17 01:27

RTL copy and paste
I've found the easiest way to do this is to first set up your beginning and ending spans on 2 separate lines, separated by a blank line. On that blank line, you paste the RTL text. Then you go to the end of the first span, hit delete to combine the 2 lines, then go down to the beginning of the /span line, and hit backspace to merge it with the previous line. &mdash; 0918 BRIAN &bull; 2006-01-16 20:15

Java Tool box
I've noticed that in the Hebrew wikipedia the upper edit windows Java tool box is much more extensive ,having at least 8 more very usefull buttons. I was wondering what prohibid us from giving more automation in the form of advanced buttonery (or the option for such) ?-- Procrastinator@ talk2me 20:49, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Nothing is stopping us. &mdash; 0918 BRIAN &bull; 2006-01-16 20:52
 * I'll try to figure out how to copy it over, although I don't know javascript or Hebrew :) &mdash; 0918 BRIAN &bull; 2006-01-16 20:56
 * I've moved it to Tools/Editing_tools. It was slowing down the site too much. Anyone can still add them in manually. &mdash; 0918 BRIAN &bull; 2006-01-17 03:19

No edit box menu
The menu in the edit box isn't displaying for me. I'm using a library MS computer at the moment, so tech specs (although possible), might be hard to come by. Septentrionalis 17:39, 17 January 2006 (UTC)


 * No menu here either (Firefox on OS X). And yes, I have Javascript enabled, and yes, I'm using the monobook style. dab (&#5839;) 15:26, 18 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I have the menu on my Windows XP Professional when I use Mozilla 1.7.12 but not when I use Internet Explorer 6.0. --Angr ( tɔk ) 15:33, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

That was a temporary thing. LockeCole's new code was implemented, but didn't work, so it was reverted. &mdash; 0918 BRIAN &bull; 2006-01-18 18:33
 * No menu. Help! I need some logic symbols and umlauts and such. wvbaileyWvbailey 03:11, 19 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Does the menu show up as a blank box, or does nothing show up at all? &mdash; 0918 BRIAN &bull; 2006-01-19 03:20


 * This is what I see inside a box below the buttons "Save page", "Show preview" "Show changes" "Cancel|Editing help (opens in new window):
 * "Special characters : € £ ¥ $ ¢ © ® ™ · « » –  — – ‘ “ ’ ” | … ~ # @ § ¶ • ¡ ¿ \ ½ ¼ ¾ ≈ ± − × ÷ ° ^ ¹ ² ³ µ · See menu for more (no menu?)"
 * But where's the "menu" supposed to be located? Maybe I'm just not looking in the correct place? I'm on AOL, using their Netscape browser. wvbaileyWvbailey 16:33, 19 January 2006 (UTC)


 * It's supposed to be immediately beneath that line, above the line that says Your changes will be visibile immediately. Angr ( tɔk ) 16:46, 19 January 2006 (UTC)


 * It works. Thanks. wvbailey23:58, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

MediaWiki:Charset.js
I moved the end chunk of MediaWiki:Monobook.js to MediaWiki:Charset.js, which is only downloaded if the user is on an Edit page. I don't know if this helps/hurts the site. I tried asking, but the devs were busy :) &mdash; 0918 BRIAN &bull; 2006-01-17 03:55
 * Now is probably the right time to move to the code User:Locke Cole and I've created. I've posted the latest version to MediaWiki talk:Charset.js.  It will remove the need to have the languages in the Javascript file and can remember the last language someone used with a cookie. Superm401 | Talk 08:46, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I tried moving it, but the everything blanked out in the more characters block, except for a blank dropdown menu. &mdash; 0918 BRIAN &bull; 2006-01-17 17:50

Template:Information
Is it possible to add a special character listed as Image description that would be inserted like the following:

The template gets rendered like on this page. This would be very useful as a special character on the Special:Upload page. In Slovenian Wikipedia this is available as Opis slike in the first line of special characters (encoded in sl:MediaWiki:Summary). I hope you understand what I mean. --Eleassar my talk 19:02, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
 * It's not possible to do in MediaWiki:Edittools without creating one long link. Someone who knows javascript could probably do it though. &mdash; 0918 BRIAN &bull; 2006-01-17 21:25

Templates
I think, lists of templates are more usefull than lists of chars. --ajvol 07:27, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
 * They can both exist. What templates should be added? &mdash; 0918 BRIAN &bull; 2006-01-19 14:18