Portal talk:Anarchism/Selected image/Archive 1

Candidates
Please add your own candidates. All candidates must be free and not fair use. As the generator includes a link to an anarchist related article, try to choose an image and caption text which specifically references anarchism. --Cast (talk) 00:58, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Any ideas on criteria? Minimum image size? Relevance guideline? Skomorokh  01:55, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The only criteria I can think of is that the article should somehow reference an article related to anarchism. Each of your suggestions work perfectly.  Size is not a great matter of importance.  I think we should aim for a diverse range of anarchist tendencies and avoid redundancy.  The license plate "ANRCHST" references Anarchism and anarcho-capitalism, but it looks like it refers to Anarcho-capitalism, which I've already put down for image 7 as the reference for the "Law Speaker" painting.  I suggest changing the "ANRCHST" wording.  Or perhaps it's not a big deal.  I also think that while we tend to shy away from turning portraits of anarchists into permanent fixtures on templates, it is alright to give them space on this generator.  As such, I suggest more photos and paintings of figures like Proudhon, Emma G., etc.  Also, covers of first edition books would be good.   For example, a first edition cover of God and the State would be very appropriate.  The Commons has some useful images.  I'll toss in the gravesite of Sabate for good measure.--Cast (talk) 05:06, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Cool; feel free to edit the captions I've added at will, I'm not at all sensitive. On the topic of anarchists, I've noticed that many featured portals have a "featured biographies" element and given our reluctance to install anarchists in any quasi-official capacity and the fact that biographies are amongst our better articles, we could think about adding a similar feature to P:AN. (Of course, someone would have to go off and write all the summaries!) I hadn't thought of pictures of anarchists or books here as I was seeking out the interesting and unfamiliar, but I'll have a look on Commons and see what I can come up with. Skomorokh  05:24, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Added Enrique Roig San Martín. I'm not sure how I feel about the Ama-gi, but we've got enough now for twenty images even if we leave it out.  We can just mix them around now to get a good variation of images, or wait until we have a few more.--Cast (talk) 07:54, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Addendum: not feeling too good about Gandhi. He was anti-statist, but didn't declare himself an anarchist until the end of his life.--Cast (talk) 15:33, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Anarchism in Japan images
On a related note, I've been trying to figure out the copyright status of these Japanese anarchist images for a while. They relate to Kotoku, Osugi & The Red Flag incident, and Sakai Toshihiko. If we can figure out their status, they'd be a good addition to the commons.--Cast (talk) 05:37, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
 * These look like recent photographs of cloths/documents published in Japan. According to articles 51 and 57 of the copyright laws of Japan, under the jurisdiction of the Government of Japan all non-photographic works enter the public domain 50 years after the death of the creator (there being multiple creators, the creator who dies last).


 * Photographic images published before 31st December 1956 or photographed before 1946 and not published for 10 years thereafter are under jurisdiction of the Government of Japan. Such images are considered to be public domain according to article 23 of old copyright law of Japan and article 2 of supplemental provision of copyright law of Japan


 * We would have to find out who the authors were, and either establish that they all died before 1958 or that the photos were taken before 1946 and not published before 1956 in order to use the images (assuming they are not free images under some other justification). Skomorokh  06:21, 4 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, I highly doubt we could confirm any of that. Forget it then.--Cast (talk) 06:43, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Oscar Wilde or The Soul of Man under Socialism
I'm adding Oscar, but I don't feel his article is focused on Anarchism enough. Same thing with Gandhi. Maybe if it would be possible to get a scan of a cover for the essay, Soul of Man, it would be be the better link. If anyone can help out with that, I'd appreciate it.--Cast (talk) 23:16, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
 * No luck on Google. I think with 20+ images, we can afford to be choosey. Is there some vetting process you intend on putting the above images through before they move from candidates to selections? Skomorokh  23:21, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I think the vetting process can afford to be very informal. With these initial choices, I want to pick out a large sum in advance, so I knew a few iffy choices would sneak in.  I'm going to let them stew here for a week, and with that link in the ATF: Work in Progress section, I hope a few people will stop  by and give input.  No different from the normal image selection process.  After this initial week is over, and there has been no substantial objection, I'll start loading uncontested ones.  In the future, I imagine images will come in at a slower pace, as infrequent passer-by's to the Portal talk page make a suggestion.  Nominations for individual images can be carried on there, as they won't bog down the talk page the way this initial phase would have.  So that's it.  No formal vote.  No unnecessary hoops to jump through.  Just a simple "suggestion->dialogue->conclusion" discussion.--Cast (talk) 23:54, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Sounds splendid. Two things I would propose is that the candidate images should be attributed to their creators (if possible) before they are passed, and that the captions should generally take the form "Description of the image -> comment about the topic". Some of the captions above don't identify the images, and given that the images are what is selected, not the topics, this might not be ideal. Skomorokh 23:59, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Fair point. I'll go about rewriting the text to focus on the images.--Cast (talk) 00:45, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

I am working on the image credits, should be done soon. Skomorokh 02:36, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
 * ✅ where possible/appropriate. Only captions to polish now. Skomorokh  02:44, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Candidates acceptable?
Leaving out the marginal cases (Ama-gi, Gandhi, Wilde), we have 21 candidates for selected picture here. Can we start moving them into the User:Cast/Portal:Anarchism/Selected picture slots? There does not seem to be much holding this project back from going live, although I will continue adding to this stock so that we may be even more selective in quality and relevance. Skomorokh 03:36, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Seems the ATF is a bit on the quiet side these past few weeks. You and I seem to be the loudest voices editing ATF material.  I suppose I won't wait for input.  We can start moving the pictures, editing the text to focus on the images, rather than just the topic, as we go.--Cast (talk) 04:05, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * My general modus operandi is not to wait for consensus before making improvements to content, but to seek feedback and if consensus emerges either way, go with it. Usually no-one responds, the responses are endorsements or helpful suggestions, so it's generally cool to be bold and do what you think improves the encyclopaedia. It's not like there was some pre-existing Portal:Anarchism convention on image selection other than someone randomly stumbling on the portal and deciding to change the image. I think we can at least test run the system here in your userspace. Must remember to add credit info per the layout as we go if possible. Skomorokh  04:10, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm satisfied that we have done as much as could be expected with the current candidates, are you cool to implement this? Skomorokh 05:53, 23 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I still haven't rewritten some of the captions to focus on the image, rather than the subject, but I suppose that can be done after implementation. We can begin implementation.--Cast (talk) 17:22, 23 April 2008 (UTC)


 * First 20 done. If we are happy with 20, we can talk about using some of the above candidates instead of existing candidates of lesser quality, or just have an odd number (~23) of selected images. It would be cool to have this implemented by the May portal update. Skomorokh  18:07, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Anarchist ammunition
I can't think of an appropriate write-up, but this is an interesting and high-res image that would balance the bias towards late-20th century images. Skomorokh 04:12, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * If I'm not mistaken, I believe this image was created as part of a report on anarchists following the Haymarket affair. Entitled Anarchy and Anarchists:  A History of the Red Terror, and the Social Revolution in America and Europe. Communism, Socialism, and Nihilism in Doctrine and Deed.  The Chicago Haymarket Conspiracy, and the Detection and Trial of the Conspirators.  (1889), by Michael J. Schaack.
 * Well, that's an objective title, eh? If we had an article on anti-anarchism, that would be the perfect subject write up.  Of course, I'm the one who has been trying to cook that up, so I blame myself.  Alternatively, we could make a write-up about how anarchists adore improvised munitions, being deeply in favor of the DIY ethic.--Cast (talk) 04:45, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I like your style! Cursed regulations. Skomorokh  04:50, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * To be serious, perhaps this should be the image used for the write up on Propaganda of the Deed. The one currently used shows an interesting poster of a dynamiter facing off against an angel (my money's on the dynamiter – he's better armed!)  That one isn't specifically about an anarchist.  Granted the cartoon is clearly an anarchist stereotype, but the text refers to Bolsheviks.--Cast (talk) 05:23, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * But it's so pretty? Alright. Skomorokh  05:50, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Comments on Infoshop, Magon bros., Mahkno, etc.
I support the 2 infoshop images and the Flores Magon brothers portrait, oppose the graveyards as not being visually engaging, oppose Mahkno for poor quality (though interesting), oppose Reggio in its current state because of the text and formatting, and no opinion on Mackay or Goldman. Skomorokh 15:32, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Promoting the infoshop and Flores Magon images. Skomorokh  00:09, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I can understand the opposition to the other images, but the Mahkno image is of a higher quality than other versions of the same photo. Given it's historical context and content (it includes other anarchists, such as Fedir Shchus), I consider it a good example of the kind of images the portal should feature.  Please reconsider it.--Cast (talk) 06:15, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Topically, it's great. Technically, it's terrible. Even though this version of the image is of higher resolution than some images we have selected (e.g. Image:Émile Pouget.jpg), the technical quality is much worse than the majority of our selected images (compare to the low res, high quality Image:Cleyere.jpg for example). Now that I think of it, it's in the same boat as Image:Sacvan.jpg; both have great encyclopedic value (depictions of people very relevant to anarchism) and are iconic, "the kind of images the portal should feature" as you put it, but they are of very poor technical quality, especially when expanded. For instance, both show very obvious compression artefacts, a low level of detail and arbitrary cropping. We could deprioritize technical quality and focus simply on relevance to anarchism and visual interest, but that would be to move away from the standards of WP:FP?. I remain unconvinced, but let's discuss it further. the skomorokh  15:01, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Promoting Pouget & Tolstoy nominations
I second the nomination of the Emile Pouget illustration and the portrait of Tolstoy, and will promote both as aesthetically and historically valuable illustrations of notable figures in anarchist history. I will use the presented portrait of Tolstoy, rather than the alternate. It's brighter color seems more aesthetically interesting against the black banners of the Anarchism Portal.--Cast (talk) 06:15, 16 September 2008 (UTC)