Portal talk:Ukraine/Archive 1

Background color
I changed the "Ukraine Wikiportal/&#1059;&#1082;&#1088;&#1072;&#1111;&#1085;&#1089;&#1100;&#1082;&#1080;&#1081; &#1042;i&#1082;i&#1087;&#1086;&#1088;&#1090;&#1072;&#1083;" background color. It's now the blue color of the flag, previously it was bright blue, but I didn't like that.--Berkut 19:04, 28 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Sure, I don't mind that at all. So far, the portal is located at my userspace and I only sent a note to a couple of users for test-drive. Shortly, we'll move it to Wikipedia:Wikiportal/Ukraine and, hopefully, it will be edited mercilessly for its own good from then on. Feel free to play with it further. If other users also notice it and start editing now, I would not mind it at all. Cheers to all! -Irpen 19:23, May 28, 2005 (UTC).

Look, with all respect, what you've done is incorrect. The blue of the Ukrainian flag is meant to be the sky ("Блакитний"), so the colours here are too dark. If you go to the Ukraine page, where there is a photo of Mig-29 jet fighters with the Ukrainian coat-of-arms, the colour there is more correct. Also more like the fully correct colours is the heading of the "Featured article".

Having said that, the flag in its correct colours is very hard on the eye - the sky blue and the yellow are pretty well "opposite" colours and that makes it a very very high-contrast item, not easy to look at. I do understand why you would "not like it". Old_Wombat (talk) 08:26, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Standard Wikiportal template
I'm going to take about 45 minutes to re-make this using the latest version of the Wikiportal template (this one was copied from an older template). This will require moving the sub-articles, so the portal may look quite broken for a bit. Please bear with me, and let me know if I mess anything up. &mdash;Michael Z. 2005-05-28 21:38 Z 

The newer version looks better, I think. I notice that Wikipedia:Wikiportal/Ukraine/UCOTW is not on the portal's front page. Is this temporary? I think it is useful to have it on front page as well as the suggestion to add the New Article Notice board to the watchlist.

Also, the "be timid" advise for new editors, as it is now, might not get clicked by new editors. They are new, so they are less likely to have experience browsing the WP. I would have the suggestion for newcomers to read what's there more conspicuous. Objections? Maybe the current text of the warning I wrote is too strong. If so, please modify it. I think it's great we are getting this off the ground. Great weekend to all! Irpen 02:47, May 29, 2005 (UTC)


 * I rolled the collaboration and Wikiproject boxes into one, so the content of the UCOTW box is now included in the "Wikiprojects and collaborations" box, and editable at Wikipedia:Wikiportal/Ukraine/Wikiprojects. The collaboration box messed up the layout, because with its margin it was wider than 100%, so for now I reduced everything to very plain text.  Sorry for that; feel free to edit as desired.


 * Same goes for the "bold & timid" note. I just tried to simplify the copy without removing anything, but please edit at will.  Cheers.  &mdash;Michael Z. 2005-05-29 05:15 Z 


 * I made some small changes to two templates. There seem to be a cache problem at the server right now. At least not all of my changes show up at the frontpage outline. Probably, would go away by itself. Maybe what I did could be done better. So, please edit. Cheers, Irpen 06:48, May 29, 2005 (UTC)


 * I am just curious why the main article about Ukraine contains a wrong image of the coat of arms: the one with a lion and a cossack (it is also on the template). The only official (small) coat of arms is currently the trident. I'll try to find an image of the trident.Sashazlv 03:37, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Found. Use. Sashazlv 03:49, 30 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Thanks! I just used the same image that was in the Ukraine article. If this CoA is not official, we should change it there too. Could you or anyone just confirm for sure that the CoA in the main UA article is not correct? (I am not at all and expert in these things). Sasha, could you raise the issue in the talk:Ukraine article that it uses a wrong CoA? Irpen 07:39, May 30, 2005 (UTC)

COA
From the Constitution :
 * The state symbols of Ukraine are the State Flag of Ukraine, the State Coat of Arms of Ukraine and the State Anthem of Ukraine.
 * The State Flag of Ukraine is a banner of two equally-sized horizontal bands of blue and yellow.
 * The Great State Coat of Arms of Ukraine shall be established with the consideration of the Small State Coat of Arms of Ukraine and the Coat of Arms of the Zaporozhian Host, by the law adopted by no less than two-thirds of the constitutional compositio n of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine.
 * The main element of the Great State Coat of Arms of Ukraine is the Emblem of the Royal State of Volodymyr the Great (the Small State Coat of Arms of Ukraine).

I think the small COA is the trident, here's something else I found :

''The current state emblem (officially known as the "small" or "minor" coat of arms) is a gold Trident of St. Volodymyr the Great on a blue shield (much like the one shown on your rendition of the Border Guard Flag). As correctly stated in your excerpt from the Ukrainian Constitution, the small coat of arms is to become the central element in the great coat of arms. However, this decision has become stalled in parliament, mainly due to opposition from the Communists, who would like to see an emblem at least partially recalling the Soviet period.''

I don't think the "Great" COA has been adopted yet... --Berkut 09:12, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Sounds convinsing. Than we should put the small CoA into main Ukraine and article, of course, here. I will cross-post the above discussion to talk:Ukraine and wait a bit for responses. I don't expect objections, so we can replace the image there soon. Thanks, guys. Irpen 16:08, May 30, 2005 (UTC)

Ready to go live
I think this Wikiportal is good to go. &mdash;Michael Z. 2005-05-30 23:40 Z 
 * I don't object. Do we need to modify the "be timid" warning? If everyone thinks we can go live with it as is, let's go. I am sure the rest is in shape to go. Does anyone else want to say anything? Irpen 06:16, May 31, 2005 (UTC)

Text wrapping around CoA
The text does not wrap around the coat of arms nicely. --Berkut 19:39, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Tried to address is. Does it look better now? If not, please revert. Irpen 20:53, May 31, 2005 (UTC)
 * Hmm, the text just goes on behind the picture. --Berkut 00:19, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't see that. Maybe I simply don't understand what the problem is or maybe it is browser sensitive. Sorry, I am of no help. Maybe you or others can fix it. Irpen 00:56, Jun 1, 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the problem does not show in IE, only in Firefox --Berkut 09:02, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I will write User:Zscout370 asking for his advise. I seem to remember he was able to solve a similar problem in Russian portal. Are we ready to go live after that? -Irpen 20:05, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)


 * I just tweaked the formatting for the edit links. The COA looks okay in Firefox/Mac for me now.  How does it look from over there?  &mdash;Michael Z. 2005-06-5 00:51 Z 


 * Yeah, it looks fine now, wraps and everything. --Berkut 02:01, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Another announcement board added
I modified the Wikipedia:Wikiportal/Ukraine/Wikiprojects window and added Wikipedia:Wikiportal/Ukraine/Ukraine-related Wikipedia notice board. Please see the latter for the reasons and feel free to modify anything. BTW, should we try to feature the info about 70+ years between the first two UA presidents at WP:DYK page? -Irpen 01:48, Jun 9, 2005 (UTC)

Time to go live?
I updated the news section to include a modern event that the Portal doesn't look outdated. So, we can go live, I think. There is still a problem with edit buttons in sections. Several browsers (particularly Opera) show them all right. Netscape shows them in hardly distinguishable from the background color and MSIE simply doesn't show them or show some but not all. Maybe it is a color problem? But I would say, let's go. Maybe someone will fix these bugs when we are live. Objections? -Irpen 03:36, Jun 16, 2005 (UTC)

Michael Z's nomination for adminship
I've been nominated for adminship. Most of you have probably collaborated with me on some Ukraine-related articles. If you have a minute, please have a look at my nomination and leave a comment. Cheers. &mdash;Michael Z. 2005-06-24 17:17 Z 
 * To this I just want to add that Michael didn't ask for the nomination. Ezhiki and myself took an initiative to do this. I am sure he will be a fine admin. Congrats, Michael! -Irpen 17:33, Jun 24, 2005 (UTC)

Time to go live? Time to go live? Time to go live?
I just updated the news. The news column does not seem outdated now. So, content-wise the portal is acceptable to go live. We still need a layout fix. I would love to do that, but I have no idea how? Anyone? I could ask for help from other users, for example at Russia Portal, but if someone new starts playing with it now, we may end up getting a complete overhaul and that perhaps is not the best thing to do right now. Thanks a lot to all! -Irpen July 1, 2005 05:31 (UTC)

Moved to Wikipedia:Wikiportal/Ukraine
I just moved the portal and its talk page to a location above. I have not yet placed links to it but it will be becoming visible.

There is a layout problems best seen with MSIE in WP classic skin. Some edit buttons in the upper right-hand corner are scrambled and some are missing. Part of the problem may be in the fact that portal is not composed of "Templates", like for example the Wikipedia:Wikiportal/Russia. So, the WP puts automatically second edit buttons to what it sees as "chapters". I don't know anything at all about those things, sorry. --Irpen July 6, 2005 20:16 (UTC)

Edit links for portal's windows

 * Yes, it does look a bit ugly with double "edit". I'll see what can be done. Do not promise anything. Sashazlv 7 July 2005 06:02 (UTC)
 * Have a look at User:Sashazlv/Try. If you like what you see, copy it to Wikipedia:Wikiportal/Ukraine. Sashazlv 7 July 2005 06:40 (UTC)

Seems way better! Double edit buttons are gone. One more thing, the edit links (not duplicated now) are hidden in the background color. Take a look if you can in MSIE, classic skin setting. It is less of a problem in monobook skin, because there is a graphic link pictogram there. Is changing the background color an only option? Thanks a lot! --Irpen July 7, 2005 18:23 (UTC)


 * I'm no expert, but you should be able to over-ride the default link colours in HTML. I don't know how Wikipedia handles this, though... -- mno July 7, 2005 18:28 (UTC)

The double edit links are still there when viewed on IE 6 on Windows 2000. Sometimes the second link is directly below the first link, sometimes they overlap slightly, sometimes other things happen. I can provide a screenshot if needed. -- mno July 7, 2005 22:24 (UTC)
 * They are there at main Portal, but not at the link sent by Sasha above. At least I don't see them there. --Irpen July 8, 2005 01:38 (UTC)


 * Ah right, I see. I thought that you had already moved in the necessary changes into the portal to fix it. Sorry. -- mno July 8, 2005 02:44 (UTC)

And I see Sasha placed the corrected version here and linked it to a Ukraine article as well. Great job, all of us! I just moved the link to the top of UA article, at least for now, to get it going. We need to change the color of edit links to, perhaps, green. But that would be done while in the live mode. I will try to figure out how to do it. --Irpen July 8, 2005 21:43 (UTC)
 * Also, for now I moved the link to the portal to the top of the most prominent UA-related articles: Ukraine, History of Ukraine, Ukrainian language and Ukrainians. That would hopefully be a good jumpstart. If for someone doesn't like this for stylistic reasons, feel free to move it down. --Irpen July 8, 2005 21:53 (UTC)


 * I tried to play with Sasha's version after he eliminated the double edit buttons. What I wanted to accomplish was to make the "edit" links of a color different from blue because they are hardly seen at the background. Maybe white would be a good option (personally, I think yellow would be overdoing it. Anyway, I didn't succeed and gave up for now. If anyone know's how to change the color of the edit links, please do so


 * I don't think we should override the default style. Instead, we could put the "edit" link just below the heading. See User:Sashazlv/Try. There, I have also corrected the links. Sashazlv 20:55, 9 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Sasha, I moved your version into the portal page. I think, your way is excellent! I don't see any more styllistical issues and we all can now consentrate on content. Thanks to Sasha, Michael and everyone else who was involved into this. Cheers, --Irpen 21:18, July 9, 2005 (UTC)

Added purge button
I've added a button at the bottom of the page, to more easily reset the page following new transclusions. Cheers! BD2412 talk 01:57, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Selected picture/Ukrainian paintings
Irpen, good comment re: Chernivtsi University picture. Still, I reverted the selected picture back as CU picture brings geographic variety to the portal (something else aside from Dnieper and Kiev pictures, which are great at any rate). Other portals have a separate portal box for paintings so your pic was incorporated into the one I created (copy/paste). The portal probably needs to be adjusted after this addition.--Riurik 01:45, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I see your point and I don't mind the diversity. I simply have an issue with this particular photo which looks clearly too amatourish for the Portal's page. I also have no objection to the idea of separating the images to the "selected picture" and "selected painting". --Irpen 03:01, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Point taken; let's replace the CU picture.--Riurik 04:07, 11 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Suggestions for Selected Picture Box

  pictures of/related to Ukraine  rotation would occur every 5-7 days  prospective pictures preferably should be posted ahead on Proposed Featured Picture page in order to be examined by other editors  pictures ought to vary geographically, if applicable  description of a picture should contain at least one inner wiki link to another Ukraine related article  ...  ...  --Riurik 02:19, 11 August 2006 (UTC)


 * The painting was rotated. Any preferences for a selected picture.  There are a few new choices in the Propose picture section, or perhaps anyone has something else in mind.  I was also thinking about finding an appropriate picture & maybe painting to correspond to the upcoming day of independence next week.--Riurik 21:51, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

GA Section
Should we possibly add a Good Article section to this portal, as we have one now (possibly more to come...)? Any thoughts on the matter? —dima • talk • sb • 02:32, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Perhaps instead of having a "feature article" section we can have a "selected article" section on the portal. This will allow the use of FA and GA articles, as well as those deemed by UA portal editors worthy of being posted on the front page.  Thanks for formatting the portal.--Riurik 17:01, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, I think that that should work out fine... Perhaps we should rotate the articles every week or so, and propose next selected article on the talk, like we do with selected images? —dima • talk • sb • 17:06, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Sounds good.--Riurik 17:30, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
 * OK, so what shall we choose to be the next article to replace the T-34? —dimæ [diskussion—archiv] 17:44, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

How about Verkhovna Rada?--Riurik 18:21, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
 * It's good, but how about something not related to Kiev, like Lviv Railway Station, Ukrainian karbovanets, Odessa Opera Theater, or pehaps, Yalta? (We have not had any city articles on the Selected Article before....) Also, were you nominating the article about the Verkhovna Rada or the VR building? —dimæ [diskussion—archiv] 18:52, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I am not sure if Verhovna Rada is the best choice. Yalta sounds interesting, but the article seems a bit short still. How about Lviv? -- mno 19:22, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I think that will be fine. But we should make the text about the article a bit larger than a paragraph, IMO... —dimæ [diskussion—archiv] 19:24, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

To reply, VR as an institution, not a building. Maybe later, as locations outside Kiev, should be brought up. I like Lviv over Yalta if only b/c the former is less known then the latter (i.e. Yalta Agreement). The karbovanets article is also good, but currently is too short. Lengthwise, the selected article ought to look good to the eye and be informative enough--Riurik (discuss) 19:32, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Please take a look at Portal talk:Ukraine/Featured article and keep it up to date. --Irpen 01:11, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

DYK section
Is there a place where we store all Ukraine portal related DYK articles (for history's sake and ease of access later), while beginning to delete some older entries since the DYK section is getting really large? I did not want to just delete some without asking this.--Riurik (discuss) 03:34, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, move them to Portal talk:Ukraine/Did you know. --Irpen 05:48, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Done.--Riurik (discuss) 15:42, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Portal:Ukraine
Hello, I am the sysop of th german vision of the portal:Ukraine, maybey the sysop of the english one, can connect me, to combine the 2 portals nearer then now.

You can also send mee a message, if you have any ideas of connecting the german portals about the diviedes states of the USSR, like the russian portal, or the portal moscow.

Therefore Please check User Manecke!

With greatings manecke!


 * In my book, DDima and Irpen are the portal:ukraine sysops.--Riurik (discuss) 06:20, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

That's a huge exaggeration, at least for Irpen. While I indeed initiated the Portal, I only laid out an initial draft and editors which much better than myself artistic and web-design talents built it to a current form. Now, most of the work is done by Riurik and DDima. As for me, I still keep an eye on this, but I hardly administer this portal. --Irpen 05:55, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Russian and Ukraine
Russia and Ukraine is the same thing historically. Ukraine was only independent for 10+ years. Therefore, Russian portal and the ukranian portal should be merged ASAP. --Mikey Mousey 06:12, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Please do not troll. --Irpen 06:20, 30 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I feel sorry for Mikey. Not only does he have his facts wrong, but he can't count or spell. Bandurist 20:45, 11 January 2007 (UTC)


 * The topic is over. That account was used only for vandalism and has been blocked indefinetely. Solarapex 00:10, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

800X600 display problems
Here are two screen shots using IE at 800X600. Shot #2 shows a too-wide image, causing the right column to not start just below the intro as it should, in shot #1. The solution is to make all images small enough for the coulmns at the lower resolution. Rfrisbietalk 05:09, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I have made the images, smaller. Does it still screw up? —dima/s-ko/ 05:14, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
 * 270px seems to be as big as they can go for a 50% column width. Portal:Religion is a workable example for 300px images with a 60% column width. Rfrisbietalk 05:32, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Portal looks
The portal is looking better than ever. It is a pleasure to use.--Riurik (discuss) 23:48, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I have formated the portal so the featured article and anniversaries will update every month, but we should add some more anniversaries to the months as on some there are only one or two... —dima/s-ko/ 19:12, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Did you know?..
I don't know if you have noticed but in the Did you know section it says that Russian is the most common first language in Ukraine. It is not right. Please revise the statement. Thank you. --Sakura-org 16:52, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
 * The DYK section contains text that was on the Main Page, and it appeared on the Main Page with that text. So it should stay as it is. However, I agree, the text should have been revised [before it was posted on the Main Page], probably to second most common language in Eastern and Southern Ukraine... before posted on the main page, but it's too late now. —dima/talk/ 20:25, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
 * It was revised on the main page. I remember I complained about it and the change to

second most common language in Eastern and Southern Ukraine... or something like that was made. Sakura-org  talk 18:14, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Police and military
Under Main topics are articles about the military forces of Ukraine placed under Police forces. Police forces should either split up, or get a new name? Helge Høi (talk) 09:42, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Armed forces is also an alternative option, and even though implies the exclusion of police/interior forces, it may be a better title. I suspect those topics were grouped together to avoid further extending the table size.--Riurik(discuss) 01:17, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Fixed.--Riurik(discuss) 06:01, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Wrong information
The territory of Ukraine was enlarged westward not after the WWII, but right before it when Soviet Union and Germany started the war with the invasion of Poland. Check your facts! The border changes took place in 1920's also when Taganrog was transferred to the Russian SFSR. On the territory of Ukraine was created pro-Russian government of invented Moldavian autonomous republic which in 1990s concluded in a major military conflict. Now the only right thing in the article is the fact about the transfer of the Crimea in 1954. That leades me to some suspicion that maybe the visit card of the article was written by someone who needs some polishing off on the history of Ukraine. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 21:44, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * In the introduction, we are shortly discussing the article about Ukraine, including major changes to the country (addition of a third of the country) and not just the transferal of Taganrog area. However, while the western Ukrainian lands were transferred to Soviet Ukraine after the 1939 invasion, they were "officially" annexed and adopted to the Ukrainian SSR in 1945. ddima.talk 00:44, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

День Українського Моря
Вітаю! До скорого дня Українського моря пропоную звернути увагу на статтю Ukrainian Navy, та по можливості доповнити історичний розділ статті. Доброю запорукою стане оця стаття Військово-морські сили Української Народної Республіки та Української Держави. Коли б хто взявся перекласти її на англійську, це було б добре.--KaiserAdler (talk) 15:32, 18 April 2010 (UTC) from uk.wikipedia.
 * This is the English Wikipedia and not all the participants in the Ukraine Portal are speakers of Ukrainian. It is generally considered rude to post in any language other than English on the English Wikipedia.  Please translate and repost.  (Taivo (talk) 20:00, 18 April 2010 (UTC))

I plugged it into |en| Google Translate, and Google spat out this: "Congratulations! By hastening the day of Ukrainian sea propose to draw attention to the article Ukrainian Navy, and where possible to complement the historic part [of the] article. The good is this [will] guarantee [...] delet[ion] [of the Ukrainian Wikipedia article] 'Navy [of the] Ukrainian [National] Republic and the Ukrainian State'. [If someone could] beg[i]n to translate it into English, it would be good." Jwkozak91 (talk) 01:06, 19 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Sorry, my English is very poor. I hoped that you can understand Ukrainian. I'll just want the attention for the history of Ukrainian fleet, that has on 29 April his anniversary--KaiserAdler (talk) 17:30, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

edits by Joodoe
Hi all

I am copying this over from a userpage to make everyone aware of the goings on. Joodoe is editing articles which need more of an expert on Ukrainian history who can read Ukrainian/Russian than me to check if anyone has the time. They are mainly about WWII...


 * Just been looking over some of his work from the last few weeks and had to take action on a couple. Don't think you are alone...
 * I will keep monitoring things as usual ...
 * It is a shame that he cannot get involved with other things besides just Ukrainian WWII articles, but as he and pawel5586 seem to be getting more and more bold I suppose we will just have to pay more attention to their edits.
 * Can someone with more UPA/OUN experience have a look at the articles: Vsevolod Petrov Ivan Hrynokh Yaroslav Stetsko and Lviv pogroms
 * I will copy this to the Ukraine and Milhist (where necessary) forums also.

In particular there are refs and sources used where it would be necessary to translate from Ukrainian and books which are not available here in Western Europe.

Chaosdruid (talk) 18:31, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
 * To handle this, just revert ANY AND ALL edits that rely on a Ukrainian/Russian language text source that is otherwise impossible to find in the western world. We don't know if these are peer reviewed works, we don't know if the quotes are even real. He has a bad track record and we should assume bad faith in cases where we cannot verify, as he has deliberately misquoted many times to push his POV and been caught. Personally, resuming his ban would be the best measure.--Львівське (talk) 19:26, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

"Kharkov Military Engineering Academy" (done)
Can someone please check the info about "Prof. Konstantin Petrovich"? Israeli authorities claim he is "an expert in Scud-missile control systems" and have been Dirar Abu Seesi's mentor at the "Kharkov Military Engineering Academy". Veronika Abu-Seesi, Dirar's wife, says that her husband has studied at the "Zaporizhia Machine Building Institute". --Recherchedienst (talk) 02:00, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Other surce: Abu Sisi studied electrical engineer at the Zaporizhia State University (graduated 1994) and holds a PhD (1999) from the University of Kyiv. --Recherchedienst (talk) 00:59, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Mossad is wrong. The Secret Service apparently had no time to check online library catalogs. Details see: de:Dirar Abu Sisi (German). --Recherchedienst (talk) 00:21, 9 April 2011 (UTC)