Talk:¿Quién será?

Merge
There is no reason every version of a song needs it's own page. I was looking for a listing of film and TV that used the song and artists who have remade it. In conclusion, finding concise info was difficult.
 * Agreed. No specific information can be found on PCD's own single page.  Lajbi  Holla @ me   Who's the boss?  22:25, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Support. Better to keep them all together, as the Pussycat Dolls article repeats quite a bit of info on other versions. DWaterson 17:17, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Don't Agree. I really think the PCD's version should have its own page since it's the most recognized version and the one with more information about its release. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.211.46.40 (talk • contribs) 2006-05-21 02:38:08
 * There's no need for a separate article whenever another artist releases a cover version of the same song. Uncle G 11:10, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Support, It should be merged (see I'll Be There, Bringin' on the Heartbreak, etc). Also, the PCD version was a flop, and most people are unaware that it was even released.  It doesn't deserve it's own page.  --Musicpvm 03:37, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Support merge. "Sway" -- and before that, "Quien Sera" -- has been around a lot longer than the PCD. The Dean Martin version was the most recognized for decades; should there be a separate entry under his name? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.237.141.63 (talk • contribs) 2006-05-28 21:38:12
 * Merge; we don't need seperate articles for every cover of every song. Jkelly 00:46, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Merge as per Jkelly. --Kristbg 14:03, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Merge but reduce the amount of overly detailed information about the PCD version and move it back to the PCD article. "Sway" is not exclusive to PCD, the focus of the article should be on the song, not one artist of many who covered it.  Over half of the article is devoted entirely to the PCD version.  And, no, the PCD version does not deserve its own article and it is not the most recognized cover.  As the article correctly states, the best known version is Dean Martin's; I am personally more familiar with the Anita Kelsey version, and I'm sure we could all get in a big argument about which one is our personal favorite.  It's all irrelevant: this article is supposed to be about the song, not about PCD. --12.22.250.4 19:36, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Merge There is way too much information on PCD here. Sway has a history back in the 50s and 60s we need more info on that. PCD's version is definitely not the most recognized version. If you wish to note other artists who covered the song, add it to the page with a short summary.
 * Partial merge. Certainly the comments about Dean Martin's being the best-known version are correct. But "Quien sera" probably should be listed separately; the melody is the same, but the words have nothing to do with each other. -- BRG 15:56, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Rewrite completely! With all due respect, the article is disappointing. I was looking for information about the song, and all I found was a promotional-like text about one particular fashionable release. This is a venerable old song, written before I was born (and I am not precisely "young"), which is an English version of the original Quién Será in Spanish, recorded in both languages by tens of reputable artists -- hence, both names should direct to the same article, and the article's title should have both names; both versions make part of the song's history. The article, as it is today, is way below the standard of Wikipedia. It should be rewritten, and the PCD's release that now appears as the only information about the song might be mentioned just as one more of the many that preceded it.Mirarki 19:44, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
 * This page should be kept as it is for now. Also, we need more info on when the song "Sway" was remade or sung by various persons. Ian Is Lopez 11:30, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Double Entry?
Isn't Cliff Richard mentioned twice, under 1967 and under "No date known"? Invenio 09:08, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

sheet music
here is an idea for consideration: when posting a song, many vewers might be interested in the sheet music. 64.142.4.251 (talk) 23:28, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

THANKS —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.233.228.134 (talk) 23:50, 3 February 2008 (UTC)


 * You would have to find sheet music that wasn't copyrighted.-Adimovk5 (talk) 21:59, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Eileen Barton?
The article states that the English lyrics were written in 1954, the same year Dean Martin is listed as having recorded it, but on the list it states that Eileen Barton, an American artist, recorded it in 1953. Unless she sung it in Spanish (Quién Será; unlikely), these facts seem... mutually exclusive. Also, Quién Será should redirect here. I don't know how to do redirects.Meichigo (talk) 06:23, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * According to this Eileen Barton web site and this Coral Records web site the Barton recording was actually in 1954. According to the book Who Wrote That Song? Gimbel wrote the English lyrics in 1954. I have corrected the page. Cnilep (talk) 01:13, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

There is also the Icelandic version of Sway, Í Dansi með Þér,by Bjork album glin glo 1990 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.88.162.41 (talk) 17:08, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Copyvio removal
Per Wikipedia's copyright rules, quotation of complete copyrighted lyrics is forbidden. The song dates back to 1953, well within the copyright inclusion period. See WP:LYRICS 68.146.81.123 (talk) 00:35, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Covers
The main part of the article singled out versions by the Pussycat Dolls and Michael Buble. I thought there was no reason why these over all others should get special mention since these versions, along with numerous others, are already identified and listed in the following "recorded versions" section. --Wolfer68 (talk) 18:23, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Proposed title change
I understand that this is the English Wikipedia, and thus, prone to an Anglophonic bias. Regardless, an encyclopedia- a designation this site flaunts- is meant to be objective. And the original name of the song composed by Pablo Beltrán Ruiz is “¿Quién será?” not “Sway”. Should that not be the title of the article about the song? --187.193.151.184 (talk) 20:18, 18 February 2012 (UTC)


 * I would say Quien Sera is actually a separate song, because it is (the noun Song emphasizes the lyrics, which are different between the two), that happens to use (and originate) the same melody. It deserves its own page, and it deserves to be mentioned on this page as the source of the melody for Sway.
 * It would be ridiculous to state that What Child is This? (a hymn) didn't deserve its own page just because it uses the same melody as Greensleeves. Both are important in their own right and deserve their own pages.  (I have not actually checked the wikipedia state of the two, but I would be shocked if they didn't each have their own page).
 * --68.255.106.32 (talk) 21:50, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

electrolounge
The Dean Martin version is (nicely imo!) remixed on the album electroLounge. Should this be added? Sorry here is the best reference I can give: http://www.amazon.com/Electro-Lounge-Martin-Julie-London/dp/B00000J26N — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.105.194.96 (talk) 21:01, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Easy Virtue
The song features in this movie.

Sway (Dean Martin song)
This really should be correctly titled by the most notable singer. In ictu oculi (talk) 17:45, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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Requested move 13 September 2019

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: page moved to Sway (Luis Demetrio song). For the record, I've picked one of the proposed titles in this requested move. I have found a consensus here that this page should be renamed away from Sway (song) (and have redirected that to the dab page Sway), however I have picked one of the suggested targets here. I have no problems if editors prefer a different name for this article other than the previous title - which it should not be reverted back to without a significant change in consensus. (closed by non-admin page mover) Steven   Crossin  Help resolve disputes! 15:53, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

Sway (song) → Sway (Luis Demetrio song) – WP:INCDAB. There are currently a dozen other songs with the same name listed at Sway, including highly notable ones, such as by The Rolling Stones and The Kooks. If we're going to add a disambiguating term, it should be one that is sufficient to identify the topic. —BarrelProof (talk) 05:53, 13 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Support per nom since there are four other songs titled "Sway" which have articles. PC78 (talk) 07:24, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Strongly Support per nom. There's four other songs called "Sway" with their own pages, and a dozen more that don't. Redirect to disambiguation page. Paintspot Infez (talk) 14:41, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Support while it does get more views [|Sway_(Bic_Runga_song)|Sway_(The_Kooks_song)|Sway_(The_Rolling_Stones_song)|Sway_(Danielle_Bradbery_song)] than the others WP:PDABS are held to a higher standard than normal PTs.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 18:32, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. This song gets over 75% of pageviews. Station1 (talk) 21:14, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
 * 75% is not a huge percentage, and we generally try to have an especially high threshold for cases with only partial title disambiguation (and the Rolling Stones are not some fleeting minor and obscure group). —BarrelProof (talk) 23:40, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
 * 75%+ is plenty, imo, considering it's 50% more than the recommended threshold in normal circumstances, and especially considering the next 2 songs get only about 11% each and the proposed title is possibly less recognizable, if not actually wrong. Station1 (talk) 06:46, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
 * 75% isn't a clear primary topic for a base name never mind for a PDAB, generally for a normal PT I'd usually expect 90% but that hasn't achieved consensus (yet) although the 1st part does specify "much more than any other" which would suggest at least 10x any other for normal PTs.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 16:21, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose as proposed, Demetrio never wrote nor performed a song called "Sway". The proposed title will mix two realities. © Tb hotch ™ (en-2.5). 22:15, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Well, he did write a song that is known as "Sway" in English. Should we rename it to —BarrelProof (talk) 23:37, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I doubt that's the common name. As the English version is credited to Demetrio and Norman Gimbel, Sway (Luis Demetrio and Norman Gimbel song) is more appropriate, or merely Sway (1953 song). © Tb hotch ™ (en-2.5). 15:06, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Either of those seems OK to me. —BarrelProof (talk) 19:36, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Support Sway (Dean Martin song) would also be okay. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:11, 17 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Support mentioning Luis Demetrio, although the Spanish title is probably more correct. Sway (1953 song) might be ok too. Oppose mentioning Gimbel (he adapted Beltrán's adaptation, hence not an original songwriter, and there are plenty of Spanish and instrumental versions) or Martin (he's only one of many performers). Neodop (talk) 20:13, 17 September 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Must be unmerged
Ultimately, these two songs are about as similar as Greensleeves and What Child Is This? Red   Slash  16:35, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

Inconsistent content in first two sections.
24.233.118.35 (talk) 01:58, 18 April 2021 (UTC)The first sentence says: "written by Mexican composer Pablo Beltrán Ruiz" which appears to be incorrect and inconsistent with the second section, which correctly states that "The first rendition of Luis Demetrio's "¿Quién será?" was recorded by Pablo Beltrán Ruiz" 24.233.118.35 (talk) 01:58, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 13 January 2022

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: no consensus. Perhaps a WP:SPLIT may be in order, as they are two different songs, but it's currently outwith an RM's remit. (closed by non-admin page mover) Sceptre (talk) 14:28, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

¿Quién será? → Sway (Quien Sera) – Or Sway (Luis Demetrio song). The article was moved last year to the original non-English title without discussion. The whole article, from reading it, is more about the English version of the original Spanish song than about the original itself. Also, there's Que Sera, Sera (Whatever Will Be, Will Be). As I believe, "Sway (Quien Sera)" has been commonly used, compared to the previous title decided in the 2019 RM. George Ho (talk) 01:39, 13 January 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. — Coffee  //  have a ☕️ //  beans  // 07:36, 25 January 2022 (UTC)  — Relisting. —  Coffee  //  have a ☕️ //  beans  // 02:56, 15 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Strong oppose first option what on earth is (Quien Sera) it would be (Quién será), and why as a dab cat? - "¿Quién será?" is a bolero-mambo written by Mexican composer Pablo Beltrán Ruiz. Are we translating it into some other language? In ictu oculi (talk) 18:23, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
 * No particular opinion on Sway (Luis Demetrio song) if that is WPCOMMONNAME in WPRS In ictu oculi (talk) 18:25, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Strong oppose any move - this song is not the same song in two languages. These are two completely different songs which happen to have the same music. There can be no justification for calling a song called "¿Quién será?" "Sway (Luis Demetrio song)". Luis Demetrio never wrote a song called "Sway". He (co)-wrote a song called "¿Quién será?", whose music was lifted to make the song "Sway". This article cannot stand as it is and must be split Red   Slash  21:20, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
 * You, right? Even as "completely different songs", both songs are still subject to WP:NSONGS and WP:GNG. Also, I wonder whether the content is sufficient to split. I tried without avail finding sources providing fresher info that would've improved the article. George Ho (talk) 04:52, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I mean, yes? 100% they would each need to be found notable, but they of course would each be able to stand on their own. Red   Slash  20:39, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Have you as of date found reliable sources that would have improved information about the original song? George Ho (talk) 21:00, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Support move back to Sway (Luis Demetrio song) per nom. It appears to be largely the same song, and it should be at the original English title. &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 21:30, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I assume you also support a merge of Twinkle Twinkle Little Star and Alphabet song? They're "largely the same song" after all. Or maybe Glory Glory (football chant) with Battle Hymn of the Republic? Red   Slash  20:39, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Those examples have nothing to do with this discussion, have they? Also, the way you responded appears to be either a red herring or straw man, which may be considered uncivil. George Ho (talk) 21:00, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
 * For better comparison, how about Solitaire (Laura Branigan song), which I'll discuss further at another page? George Ho (talk) 21:02, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I would never want to be rude. I'm using a Reductio_ad_absurdum because obviously Twinkle and the Alphabet song should have different articles despite sharing a melody. Likewise, Sway and QS are different songs despite sharing a melody. Red   Slash  19:55, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
 * As I must rephrase, Twinkle Twinkle Little Star's and Alphabet song's independent notabilities don't affect or change and cannot be used as precedents to the notability (or non-notability) of Quien Sera. BTW, as I'm thinking, if the result becomes "no consensus", then the title should be reverted back to "Sway (Luis Demetrio song)" per WP:TITLECHANGES. George Ho (talk) 21:58, 31 January 2022 (UTC); expanded, 21:59, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

Actual vocalist on "Mucho Mambo (Sway)"
This article and the article for Shaft (British electronic duo) both state that the vocalist on Shaft's "Mucho Mambo (Sway)" version is Claire Vaughan. However, the credits on the CD single from 1999 (all cover scans can be found on Discogs) and on streaming platforms like Tidal state that it is Donna Canale, who also did the vocals for Shaft's following version of "Mambo Italiano". The source for Vaughan being the vocalist is a blog with a date from 1999, however, the actual website (chart-watch.uk) doesn't have archives on the Wayback Machine pre-dating 2016. Although possible, I find it doubtful that if this blog has been on the Internet since 1992, or at least 1999, that there would not be archives pre-dating 2016. Unless this blog was previously at a different URL (which is also possible), then I'm doubtful this was on the Internet in 1999. The writer of the blog says he has been writing about the charts online since 1992, but it's not stated how he came to "find" Vaughan is the vocalist when the CD single clearly states it's Donna Canale. Donna Canale's website also says she "even had a couple of Pop Chart busting hits with ‘Mucho Mambo (Sway)’ and’ Mambo Italiano’ for the dance act ‘Shaft’".

It appears information about the vocalist was added to Shaft's main Wikipedia article by an IP editor in 2015, and Wikipedia mirrors, another blog claiming Vaughan is the vocalist and even a primary source, a Facebook post from the "Aubrey Spencer School of Dance" stating "One of our past dance pupils, Claire Vaughan of Thurstonland, was the lead vocal on the Shaft single (Mucho Mambo) Sway", have since perpetuated that Vaughan is the vocalist when no reliable sources bear this out and it's quite likely an anonymous editor has invented this when it's not fact and it has been repeated as if it is. Nowhere can I find a CD single or a reliable source from 1999 crediting Claire Vaughan. (Please no responses claiming that because Discogs is a user-generated website that the cover scans must or could all be fabricated to show a different vocalist....nobody would bother doing this for a dance act that had two hits, and you can buy the single yourself on eBay for a couple dollars.)

Anyway, what does everybody think? I might go ahead and change this already because there's no reliable source claiming Vaughan is the vocalist. The liner notes of the single and online sources like Tidal state Donna Canale sang the commercial version of "Mucho Mambo (Sway)". Perhaps it's possible that after Shaft remixed the recording of Rosemary Clooney's vocals that they recruited Vaughan, but she is not the official credited vocalist. Tagging, who added the background for the Shaft version citing this blog.  Ss  112   02:48, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I emailed Donna Canale at the email located on her website and she replied earlier today, saying that she has never heard of Claire Vaughan and (copied from the email, minus one repeated 'the'): "The facts are that Shaft originally used a sample of Rosemary Clooney singing Sway but they were having difficulty clearing the legal aspects of using it. So, then they contacted me - Donna Canale to sing the part. I did it one summer's day in a studio on Holloway Road, London."  Ss  112   14:26, 8 September 2022 (UTC)