Talk:Ásatrú Alliance

[Untitled]
The "goals" introduced by here are in fact the goals of the Asatru Folk Assembly, taken from here. The actual AA "bylaws" are here. --dab (𒁳) 10:23, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Notability
I have reverted the edit that removed a reference to "The Odin Brotherhood" by M. Mirabello. This book is published by a reputable publisher and is notable.

Morgan Leigh | Talk 22:43, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Book & author article were removed from Wikipedia & Wikiquote project for non-notability. Book is not notable, nor does information from it appear in the article. It is not able to be proven as notable, so please provide evidence of it being used as a source for this article or please cease restoring non-notable content to Wikipedia.

64.247.70.176 (talk) 23:02, 12 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I disagree with your position on this matter. While this article is not properly cited it nonetheless contains a list of appropriate reading on this topic. The work in question is an academic work by a PhD author and is published by a reputable academic publisher. Therefore it qualifies as notable. I have added a cite box to the article. Morgan Leigh | Talk 05:50, 14 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The book is not notable: see the deletion log for the author/book article. Also, please note that this book is not published by Oxford University, but by Mandrake of Oxford, which does not appear to be a reputable academic publisher. Perhaps the sloppy citation job caused you to think this book was published by the former rather than the latter. Due to Wikipedia's deletion of articles pertaining to this work for non-notability, that the work is not published by an academic publisher and its status as an academic work is questionable, and that it is not used as a reference for this page, I think it is most reasonable to remove the reference. 64.247.69.74 (talk) 03:04, 17 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Please note that the IP 64.247.69.74 is attempting to remove ALL references to the book from multiple Wiki sites. Here is the revision history for an article that referenced the book on WikiHow: revision to WH.  Click last revision and observe how the reference was removed and re-added about a dozen times.  I believe this IP was previously the IP 64.247.68.54.  That IP deleted the entire article on the book from Tin Wiki revision to TW.  Please see the talk page were I noted their multi site removals talk page.  They have even removed references to the book from user's personal talk pages. 71.221.97.60 (talk) 04:03, 21 November 2008 (UTC)


 * This does not make the work notable. 76.177.62.123 (talk) 14:13, 21 November 2008 (UTC)


 * It does show that this individuals assertion that the book is not notable is not trustworthy. So, if you are basing your assertion that it is not notable on their statements then it seems you should reconsider.  This individual deleted user talk pages off of wiki pagan and entire articles without discussion off of tin wiki.  I would not trust their opinion on the matter.  All their defacement is related to that specific book which they claim is nn.  In other words - think for yourself - do not take this vandels word as fact - their behavior shows them to have some sort of personal vendetta against the book. -- 71.221.97.60 (talk) 14:25, 21 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Articles on the book and its author were deleted from Wikipedia for being non-notable, as well as from Wikiquote (however relevant that might be). 76.177.62.123 (talk) 14:36, 21 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The following authors have no page on wikipedia (and are problably not notable enough to have their own wiki page). But their books remain as references for the article: Gardell, Mattias, Klassen, Ben, Thor Sannet, Kaplan, Jeffrey, Chadwick, H. M., Coulter, James Hjuka, Paxson, Diana L., Puryear, Mark,  Shetler, Greg, Storyteller, Ragnar.  If the rational for removing the OB book from the reference list is that its author is not notable enough tho have a wiki page.  Please remove all the referenced books by all these nn authors as well. -- 71.221.97.60 (talk) 14:50, 21 November 2008 (UTC)


 * In fact none of the books referenced by the article have their own Wiki page. They must all be non-notable.  Remove them all if that's the criteria. But why single out just one?  Apply the same criteria equally to all books. -- 71.221.97.60 (talk) 14:54, 21 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Also, it might be noted that the book does not seem to have been used as a reference for this article, and seems to be entirely irrelevant. It does not appear to have been used as a source for the content and it does not seem as if the book would be valuable as a recommendation for further reading on the topic (as the book seems to be about an Odinist group distinct from the Asatru Alliance). edit: If this applies to any other book mentioned in the article, I would agree that they should also be removed. Some do seem to be relevant, however. 76.177.62.123 (talk) 15:02, 21 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm not a member of the AA so I can't make that call - that's why I didn't just add the book back. Let someone from the organization judge how relevant it is.  If that be you then so be it.  I just hate to see it removed due to someones personal crusade against it.  If its to be removed let it be for relevant reasons. -- 71.221.97.60 (talk) 15:07, 21 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The book appears to be easily available online. A person with expertise on the topic (belonging to the group or otherwise) could evaluate its relevance. If it is valuable, then I would agree that it should stay as long as this article does. 76.177.62.123 (talk) 15:10, 21 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree. That seems a most reasonable course of action. -- 71.221.97.60 (talk) 15:15, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

the question is rather, is the AA itself notable enough for a standalone article? WP:ORG. the article could easily also be merged into Neopaganism in the United States or similar. There aren't any independent 3rd party sources dedicated to AA. Sure enough AA is mentioned among other groups in sources discussing Asatru in the US. Which means that we probably should handle it the same way, viz., mention it in a list of other groups. Compare Neopaganism in Scandinavia, Neopaganism in Germany etc.: most individual groups are too small for standalone articles and their names redirect to a discussion of a more inclusive topic. --dab (𒁳) 09:19, 14 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Previous deletes from wiki projects are not actually the decider of what is notable or not. I would recommend to you all that you read General notability guideline and Independant Sources
 * Morgan Leigh | Talk 01:24, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Sundry Points
Thanks to google, I have been able to follow the anonymous deleter around the web, who seems to be obsessed with Professor Mirabello.

In particular, note what this person did at anarchopedia, which scarely indicates mature behavior:

http://www.eng.anarchopedia.org/Special:Contributions/64.247.69.74.

Note that they did this after first being blocked from deleting an article on Mirabello at anarchopedia.

Note that the person has been blocked several times at anarchopedia, so they keep switching computers at Ohio University.

Hostname: dhcp-064-247-069-074.sg2.ohiou.edu ISP: Ohio University Organization: Ohio University Proxy: None detected Type: Cable/DSL

The same person, using a private computer, attacked the pagan wikia site, deleting the entire site!:

http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Contributions/76.177.62.123

On the issue of Mirabello's credentials, he is a full professor at a small state university. Obviously, he is not a Nobel-Prize winner, but he is the author of four works and his little book on the Odin Brotherhood has been used by other writers:

Here is an article:

http://www.eng.anarchopedia.org/Mark_Mirabello

His Odin Brotherhood book has been used by these authors:


 * Harvey, Graham. Paganism Today: Wiccans, Druids, the Goddess and Ancient Earth Traditions for the Twenty-First Century. Thorsons, 2001. ISBN 0722532334


 * Kaplan, Jedffrey. Radical Religion in America: Millenarian Movements from the Far Right to the Children of Noah. Syracuse University Press, 1997. ISBN 0815603967


 * Kick, Russ. Outposts: A Catalog of Rare and Disturbing Alternative Information. Carroll & Graf Publishing, 1995. ISBN 0786702028.


 * Melton, J. Gordon. Melton's Encyclopedia Of American Religions (Encyclopedia of American Religions) 8th edition. Gale Cengage, 2009. ISBN 078769696X


 * Streeter, Michael. Behind Closed Doors: The Power and Influence of Secret Societies.. London: New Holland Publishers, Ltd. 2008. ISBN 1845379373

On the issue of the notability of the Asatru Alliance, the organization is one of the pioneer Asatru/Odinist groups in the USA. The primary function of wikipedia is too be complete. Deleting the article on the group would be wrong-headed. --Tsmollet (talk) 08:40, 22 November 2008 (UTC)


 * ok, I suppose until any coherent rationale for removing the book is present, we should assume we are dealing with a troll and revert the removal.
 * regarding the notability issue, the suggestion isn't to delete the article, rather to merge it into Neopaganism in the United States. Obviously, AA will be mentioned in the Neopaganism in the United States. That satisfies the "completeness" point. The question is whether there should be a standalone article. --dab (𒁳) 12:42, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Tsmollet, while I do not approve of the anon's tactics, I must say that his removal of the Mirabello reference was justified. Note that the Odin Brotherhood article was deleted in February 2006: Articles for deletion/The Odin Brotherhood. Imho, this deletion was justified. If you have evidence that Mirabello or his "Odin Brotherhood" pass WP:BIO or WP:BK, feel free to re-create the article. But there is no grounds whatsoever to mention Mirabello or his book in this article. The "References" section is intended to present references on AA in particular, and not a general Asatru reading list. --dab (𒁳) 13:23, 2 January 2009 (UTC)