Talk:Æthelwold ætheling

Future reference
The following article should be of some use to help expand the article:


 * Lavelle, Ryan. "The Politics of Rebellion: The Ætheling Æthelwold and West Saxon Royal Succession, 899-902." In Challenging the Boundaries of Medieval History: The Legacy of Timothy Reuter, ed. P. Skinner. Studies in the Early Middle Ages 22. Turnhout, forthcoming. Cavila (talk) 20:51, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Proposed change of name of article
Historians never refer to Æthelwold by the name of this article, 'Æthelwold of Wessex'. In indexes to academic histories he is usually listed as 'Æthelwold ætheling' or 'Æthelwold, son of King Æthelred I'. I suggest that the article should be moved to one of these, with a slight preference for Æthelwold ætheling. Any other views? Dudley Miles (talk) 19:24, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The current title is confusing if you're not already familiar with the term "ætheling". It's not capitalised, so is or is it not part of his name? Is it a surname? If it's a disambiguator, why no parentheses? And it doesn't even appear in the article until midway down. I'd prefer it in parentheses, and explained or linked in the lede. That, anyway, is the quickest fix. Srnec (talk) 15:41, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I have explained it in the lead. Is it OK now?
 * That's better, but the title still looks jargony—like a borrowing from contemporary charters, which professional historians would have no qualms doing. Compare Edgar the Ætheling, where it's clearly a nickname. I'm not sure the average reader will know exactly what to make of this title. Srnec (talk) 19:17, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I agree it looks like jargon, but I cannot think of a better title. Dudley Miles (talk) 21:34, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Comments
Reading through the article per a request from Dudley Miles; here are a couple of thoughts.
 * The map shows definite boundaries between the various domains. I'm not as familiar with the history after about 850, so I don't know if this is a relevant comment, but the question of whether maps should show boundaries or not has come up on some of the earlier articles.  An example of a map without boundaries is at Ine of Wessex.  I've generally preferred to avoid the maps with boundaries for the articles I've worked on, but perhaps after 900 the sources start to show maps with more definite boundaries.
 * There is a change. The new edition of the Wiley Blackwell encyclopedia has no boundaries for its 700 map and boundaries with some blank areas - obviously doubtful areas - in its 900 map. The map is the best I could find. I thought of asking for an expert to do one specially for the article (which I have for a couple of articles) but I concluded that in this case the map gives a good general picture so I did not need to ask for a special one.


 * "Edward retaliated with a raid on East Anglia, and when he retreated the men of Kent lingered": I associate "retreat" with military defeat, so I wasn't clear that it was Edward who was retreating here. How about "Edward retaliated with a raid on East Anglia, and when Edward's forces withdrew the men of Kent lingered..."?
 * Done.


 * "The Danes were victorious but suffered heavy losses, including the death of Æthelwold, ending the challenge to Edward's rule." How about "The Danes were victorious but suffered heavy losses, including the death of Æthelwold, which ended the challenge to Edward's rule"?
 * Done.


 * "he was followed by four sons in succession": how about "he was followed by four of his five sons in succession"?
 * I would prefer not. I would need to explain the other son, which is not relevant.


 * How about using File:Coin of Aethelwold (Alwaldus) c.900.jpg?
 * This was used in the article but I was told at FAC that it is not allowed. Coins are 3D, and photos of them therefore require artistic skill and are copyright.

That's everything; the article is in excellent shape. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 19:56, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks Mike Christie. I now have the article at TFA at . I also have Hermeneutic style at FAC at - it currently has 2 supports. Dudley Miles (talk) 20:51, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I'll take a look at both; I don't usually get involved at TFA but I will try to review hermeneutic style; I read it when you nominated it and have been meaning to get back to it. A pity about the coin, but perhaps it is currently tagged incorrectly in that case.  It's hosted at commons, and marked as public domain in the U.S., which it shouldn't be if it's copyrighted. Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 20:58, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
 * The coin is wrongly tagged. I took it out of the article when I was told to but I must admit I could not be bothered to work out what the correct tag should be - probably I should mark it for deletion but I do not think the case against it is strong enough for that. Dudley Miles (talk) 21:10, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

Will
Curious: Is that an actual page of Alfred the Great's will? Amazing that it should have survived more than a millenium. (Odd that it doesn't appear at Alfred the Great.) Could make a good FP. Sca (talk) 14:11, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes it is one of only two surviving Anglo-Saxon kings' wills. I agree it would make a good addition to Alfred the Great's article, but I do not know what you mean by an FP. Dudley Miles (talk) 14:26, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
 * That was quick! See WP:FPC. Thanks. Sca (talk) 14:44, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Recent edits
I have reverted the edits stating that Æthelhelm became Archbishop of Canterbury. Æthelhelm was a common name - PASE lists 33 men with that name. Athelm or Æthelhelm was A of C and died 926 (not 923), but no expert on the period thinks he was the same man as Æthelred's son. In your first edit you cited Yorke 2001 pp. 30-31. She says there that Æthelred's son Æthelhelm is not recorded after being mentioned in Alfred's will. See also the short entry on Athelm in the online DNB at. (You can get access if you have a British public library card). Dudley Miles (talk) 21:27, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

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Death date
Would someone mind editing Æthelwold's Revolt and Battle of the Holme to put the uncertainty of the date in there? I would do it myself normally but I'm short on time now and very likely to forget. Thanks so much. — howcheng  {chat} 00:24, 11 December 2019 (UTC)