Talk:Ödön Pártos

Untitled
I have made certain very minor changes to the page (tyopgarphical horrors, mostly).

Is oe acceptable for ö in Hungarian? I know it is in German, but not in Finnish. (This is because in Finnish "oe" is a possible combination of two different sounds, but it is not in German; I think Hungarian is probably closer to Finnish on this point). I've changed it anyway as ö is definitely correct.

Jeff 14:08, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm the translator of this article (from the Hebrew); I noted your editing changes, Jeff, and I'm glad to have this channel and to take the opportunity to explain why I differ from you on this matter.
 * My rationale: this is the English-language article, and I believe the subject's name should be spelled in English here.
 * The English language doesn't use diacritical marks (such as umlaut and accent, in this case) on persons' names. I used the widely supported "Oedoen" -- in which oe is probably mirroring the common representation of the German ö (and I see no need to refer to the Finnish variant) -- that appears in numerous English-language publications.
 * As I strive to be highly consistent and conscientious on behalf of future searching, particularly by linguistic novices, I took care to provide the original Hungarian spelling, as well as the transliteration to Hebrew, for the sake of crossreferencing.
 * I'm new here and as yet unfamiliar with many linking tactics and their syntax. If you'd care to give me advice in that regard, it would be very welcome (but I'm learning as I go).
 * HOWEVER, I do want to revert to the English-language spelling "Oedeon" in the English Wikipedia article and leave the Hungarian as it was. What do you think of my reasoning? Deborahjay 14:30, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


 * The matter of diacritics is usually solved by placing redirects from all common and/or predictable alternative spellings of the name. Simply go to the alternate spelling, start a new article and copy into it the text #REDIRECTÖdön Pártos . As for where the main article should be located, ideally this would be at whichever spelling the subject himself would prefer for his name, but obviously that is not always known. For a Hungarian speaker, it would make sense to locate the article at the Hungarian spelling. Another way to decide is by going into Google and searching for the subject by all the various permutations of the name: whichever spelling gets the most hits should be the location for the main article, other spellings should redirect to that. I wouldn't spend too much time changing the name spelling in the article itself. As long as you have redirects from the alternate spellings, and there is no clear more correct or universally acknowledged spelling, it doesn't really matter all that much. IMHO. --woggly 14:55, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks,woggly, though much of what you suggest is far too advanced for me to grasp at present (i.e. about redirects, designation of main article, etc.) and I'll have to get back to this when I have time to follow through.
 * My objection to Jeff's suggested spelling is that it's a bastardization (pardon the expression! - actually I would call this shatnez :-), neither English nor Hungarian. The Hungarian form, besides using the diacritics, places the surname first.
 * I feel intuitively (and would appreciate confirmation or otherwise) that an article in the English edition of Wikipedia should use English-language orthography, especially in the title and then throughout the text. Would you kindly address that issue? Deborahjay 15:04, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Google gives 781 results for Odon Partos; 1150 results for Odeon Partos; 93 results for Oedeon Partos; 75 results for Eden Partosh. This seems to show that Odeon Partos is the preferred English spelling. That's about as conclusive as it gets. I would either leave the article where it is now, or move it to Odeon Partos, but not to Oedeon Partos. I would also keep in mind that variations on names and spellings can be debated endlessly without getting anywhere. Some of the worst edit wars on Wikipedia center around correct notation of place names. (For example: Danzig or Gdansk?) I would focus on the content of the article - improving the biography, adding details - not the spelling of the name. The redirects help people to find the content they are looking for even if they search for an variation on the spelling. As for the matter of שעטנז, we have precedents in Béla Bartók and Zoltán Kodály; I think we can safely say this is the accepted way of rendering Hungarian names in English. --woggly 17:34, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


 * The reasoning behind oe sounds fine on reflection, but we should at least try to be consistent: if the article uses oe for ö, does the name then become Oedeon or Oedoen? -- Twenex 16:20, 22 May 2006 (UTC)


 * BTW,the user previously listed as "Jeff" is now being listed as "Twenex" -- Twenex 16:27, 22 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Oedoen Partos gets 680 hits on google. IMHO Odeon Partos is probably more popular because it actually means something: Odeon. I still think we should either leave the article at its current location or move to Odeon Partos, but not to Oedoen or Oedeon. --woggly 18:21, 22 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I don't agree with listing (rather than linking to) the article under a name that's both incorrect and misleading. --Twenex 19:07, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

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