Talk:Ōkami/Archive 1

Similarities to Zelda: Unnecessary?
Something just doesn't seem right about that portion of the entry. If it were just a passing comment in one of the other sections that would be fine, but an entirely new section seems a little extreme. Comments like: "Smashable pots" in relation to the Zelda series is rediculous. Thats like comparing almost every FPS to Goldeneye because they both have exploding barrels. Almost sounds like fanboyism. --MajorCOW 22:20, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I think it's fair to mention that Okami and Zelda have a number of similar elements, such that most reviews can be summarized as "Zelda for PS2". But there doesn't need to be a breakdown exactly of every commonality - it's just that "Zelda for PS2" alone should adequetely get across the type of game it is rather well. If such a list becomes necessary, that probably should fall under the Reviews or Critiques section, but outside of Gameplay --Masem 8:30, 12 October 2006

Japanese Sales
The game sold horribly in japan(at least initially), anyone have anymore detailed information about that? Hitmaker 00:55, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

okami
what is the story line ? if you think about it, it is actullay about those gods who are trying to bring back the color of the world.

But, until now there are no further info about all this, what we know is so littele , wich makes us think , maybe the game does not offer to much ? ..........
 * I actually know absolutely nothing about the storyline, but based on the OST, the main villian is a "Lord of Eternal Darkness", while one of the ending themes is "Okami White Light Majesty"..color makes sense then, since black is the absence of color and white is all the colors in the spectrum.—ウルタプ 22:04, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Is the story line supposed to be written in present or in past tense? Please choose one or the other.

Release date
Whoever is changing the date for the U.S to September 20, please stop. Both GameInformer and Gamestop say it is coming out the 5th, several American magazines have already reviewed it, they ussually dont get games that far in advance,thank you.


 * I reverted the dates back to the 19th. Both IGN and GameSpot both have their release dates on the 19th. And besides, magazines aren't up-to-date with their news. --Snkcube 07:56, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Err, IGN isn't always right. Alot of DS games have the release date as December 31 in Japan, when most of those games are already out in Japan. I've found that GameInformer and Gamestop ussualy get their dates correct. -- DaxterKing


 * I'm starting to believe that the 19th is the correct date. GameFAQs and even Game Informer (check their site) also have the 19th as its release date. And also, GameStop has its release date on the 19th as well. --Snkcube 08:15, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Capcom has stated on their US website, under the release dates section, that Okami will be released in America on the 19th of September. The Publisher is to be believed above all other sources as they determine when a game is going to be released. --VerasGunn

Ok, guess I was wrong. The latest issue of GI said the 5th and Gamestop just changed the date.Sorry-- DaxterKing


 * It's not a big deal. People make mistakes. ;) --Snkcube 07:33, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Story
Isn't Amaterasu a reincarnation of Shiranui, not the god/dess him/herself?

It states in the game that OKami is the reborn Shiranui, but the godess gave the last of her strength to him =/
 * She's both. <_<


 * Amateratsu was Shiranui, and is. Before the game, she was the original wolf whom the villagers named Shiranui. She is brought back by means of Sakuya, a Wood nymph, who uses the last of her power to bring Amateratsu back into the physical world.


 * the white wolf did not choose the target of the sacrifice as stated, it patrolled the village at night and its motives were unknown.

where's the "this is about a product not out yet" thing at the top?
this is usually here but its not anymore its coming out the 19th so it should be there until its out
 * Looks like we need not worry now!

Buddha Board/ Art Board
"For those who preordered the game, the game came with a limited edition art board/buddha."

The Buddha Board/ Art Board was a preorder special only from EB Games and Gamestop. If the game was preodered else where, it never came with Art board / Buddha Board. I would change this myself but I lack resources to prove this.


 * You're right about the pre-order special only from those two stores. I re-worded the sentence so it makes more sense. --Snkcube 07:52, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Trivia changes
I don't find the recent change of the Trivia section necessary. There are numerous parodies, cameos, and tie ins to numerous games. Many of which are extremely precise and tying them all under a single statement seems to go against the point of that entire section. Am I the only one that feels this way? VerasGunn 21:01, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Maybe, but on the other hand, trivia sections should be used sparingly. Having a list of unincorporated (if exact) quotes tends to encourage people to expand it with just about every funny line and reference they encounter, which in turn can result in a rather large trivia section.  --Stratadrake 12:45, 4 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Okay, that is understandable. I thank you for answering my question. VerasGunn 06:28, 5 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Though if you want, specifically mentioning just one or two of the references (e.g., "such as the 'Let's rock, baby!' ") shouldn't hurt any.... --Stratadrake 12:37, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Would a "List of characters in Ōkami" article be appropriate?
The game has quite a large number of characters, and it could make this article look cluttered.24.97.33.132 15:50, 11 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, a "Characters in Ōkami" article would be great, because as the person above me said, listing more than just the main characters would definitely make the main article cluttered. Go for it! If nobody does it, I'm up for the challenge. Accelagirl 16:13, 11 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Donezors, though it's very stubby right now. I plan for the format to be "Character [Title]". So "Sakuya [Wood Sprite]". Like that. Glad someone liked the idea. WVI 17:00, 12 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Unsure. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information; in-game characters with incidental (very minor) appearances may not even be worth mentioning -- though I'm no judge on where to draw the line.  (Haven't played the game.) --Stratadrake 23:33, 12 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Given the nature of the game, borrowing heavily from Japanese mythology and history, I think that minor characters that can be linked to other Wikipedia articles that explain the origin of the character would be wise. (eg the Bamboo daughter, or the 1000 swords guy (names slip right now) - both have minor roles but have already been linked into the knowledge already here.  But all minor characters, as noted, would be silly - there's probably too many to start with. Masem 15:09, 13 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Ōkami has a lot of characters regardless. >_> It'd still clutter.WVI 02:42, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Amaterasu's Gender Indeterminate?
I'm not so sure it would be good to state an assumption about Amaterasu's gender on the wiki page. Even if it's based on artwork for "Golden Fury", artwork isn't quite the best source for information as nothing is directly stated. In the game, the wolf lifts its leg to perform "Golden Fury". In real life, only the alpha male does this in a wolf pack (and females and subordinate males squat). Amaterasu is referred to as a mother (as the embodiment of the reincarnation) and many times as a he. With the vagueness of gender reference in Japanese language, the gender might not be specified at all. Or it could be the same, alternating between male and female references. Gods have been just as capable as Goddesses of being "mothers" and "sources of life" in mythology.

I'm not saying I know for a fact Oukami Amaterasu is female/male/both/neither/indeterminate or anything, but I think that the quip about it being a female shouldn't be there as a "safe to assume" fact. I'm hesitant to remove it myself, because of my lack of evidence. At the same time, no definite sources on the information (other than concept artwork) have been cited yet. If someone puts up a definite citation, I'll be content. :) Accelagirl 16:10, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Amaterasu is a goddess. It is well acknowledged that Amaterasu is female. However, in the translation process, it was deemed that Amaterasu should be mostly treated as gender-neutral and the use of the word "he" was due to it being the best term ("it" usually refers to inanimate objects). There's an article somewhere on IGN, but I can't find it right now. ~ Oni Lukos ct 22:02, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
 * God/Goddess reincarnates often come in different genders in Japanese (and any other) folklore; Amaterasu is definetely female, but I wasn't sure if Oukami Amaterasu the wolf would have been. Accelagirl 21:59, 31 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Kya? When was Ammy referred to as a he?72.231.145.5 10:14, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Note the English manual specifically says "Though deliberately written to be a genderless character in the game...", pg 34. Masem 02:51, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

There is a line in the game that says "Ammy is sensitive about her flaws.". Her flaws, that is. I just now as of this writing saw it after speaking to Rao after escaping from the water dragon. It probably doesn't mean anything, but I thought it would be interesting to know. PiccoloNamek 03:31, 27 October 2006 (UTC)


 * If that's worth saying, it should also be worth noting how Tobi refers to Ammy as Good Sir and how Susano, after defeating Orochi, refers to Ammy as Brother. And I really don't think it matters who said what. All in all, I'd say that the Amaterasu of this game's gender is determined by who sees Ammy, and seeing as how Ammy was brough back in the body of a statue, I'd say it's credible enough to refer to Ammy as an "it". Besides, seeing as how Shiranui was even referred to as an "it" in the opening prolouge of the game, and since Amaterasu and Shiranui are one and the same, I don't see the need to not call Ammy "it"


 * Agreed, except that in English language identifying something as an it has rather negative connotations -- people more easily associate with "he"s and "she"s. --Stratadrake 01:19, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

demo featured in OPM
It strikes me as odd that above the content box it is noted that a demo of the game was featured in two copies of Official PlayStation Magazine. This has nothing to do with the game itself. I will delete it. If anyone disagrees, say so.--Soetermans 20:52, 15 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't see why the hell it'd be a problem. 24.97.33.132 14:29, 20 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I didn't say it's a problem, I say it doesn't fit in an encyclopedia. It resembles advertising aswell. I'm against it, but one might put a note at the bottom, but this was right above the content box, if it were more important. --Soetermans 21:18, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Brush technique tables
I added two tables for the vary brush techniques (the 13 Celestial ones, and the others that you use otherwise). I know there's more information that can be added which I don't have access to presently; for the 13 techniques, I think the name of the god that gave them to Ammy, the name of the technique, the kanji used (which is listed in the manual), and maybe an example picture for each. Similar ideas for the second table, though as these aren't part of the Celestial Techiques, they won't have the same stuff (like the god granting it to Ammy). Masem 16:06, 16 October 2006 (UTC)


 * The Celestial Techniques are brush techniques from the 15 brush gods. So the Sun and Moon technique belong in this category. Amaterasu is one of the brush gods. Nobody gave her the Sun technique because this is her own unique ability as a brush god. The brush god Yumigami gave Ammy the Moon technique to use. My source: the official strategy guide from Brady games. Rumpelstiltzkin 01:14, 17 October 2006 (UTC)


 * 15 seems off - I can't find a good list of which constellations that you unlock and what they give you, however, I am pretty sure that the animals that represent the gods number 13 - the Chinese Zodiac with the addition of the cat (yeah, too much Fruits Basket for me). Plus I distinctly remember Issun saying that there were 13 Celestial Techniques that he's after.  The manual lists 12 gods in the back (p37).    I also popped the game back in at a late save, and the information on says that, for example, the Sunrise stroke is a "Celestial Brush power".  In other words, I think there is a distinction between god-granted techniques aka the Celestial Techniques, and those that you can do with the brush, and some of the helper ones you learn. Masem 02:47, 17 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Aaaaannd never mind, I see where it is. The 3 greenery ones would be grouped as one overall technique (with three methods of invocation) as to keep the number 13 in mind.  I believe I've ID'd all the zodiac animals correctly, the only two I can't tell without going back and playing the game would be Cresent and Blizzard, which, after Iding the rest, is between rabbit and boar, and I'm pretty sure the boar was last. Masem 02:47, 17 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Aannnd never mind x2 - manual confirms that "rabbit on the moon" (tying in with how I've got it now in the table) is correct.Masem 02:49, 17 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Hey, great job cleaning up the table. Now if we can only get screenshots of the techniques... 'Fraid that's beyond my jurisdiction. Need to seriously upgrate my computer. Rumpelstiltzkin 05:45, 17 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Not to be a nag, but is a complete table even necessary to begin with? Wikipedia is not a videogame guide.  While this certainly isn't on the level of, say, describing a game's particular controller button mappings, it strikes me as pretty indiscriminate.  --Stratadrake 12:45, 17 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I've seen other game pages on wiki that have a basic list and description of the powers/abilities, etc. (Pyschonauts, for example). Also, there are ways to link up some of the mythology aspects with other articles on Wikipedia, similar to what I suggested about minor characters above - eg these have a story and/or reason, and here's what it is.   But I don't believe we need anything more beyond this in terms of game play detail.  But that's partially the reason I made this block it's own section - if it's decided it's too much for Wiki, it can be cut and pasted elsewhere without too much work. Masem 13:17, 17 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I see -- though I don't totally agree on the subject of listing everything. For comparison, do we really need a list of all the bosses, or can we trim it down to the really significant ones and integrate them with the article's context?  --Stratadrake 12:37, 19 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I think looking at the Windwaker article (since the size and scope of the two games are similar) for ideas where to take Okami's entry is worthwhile. The WW article (which I note is FA-rated) has two sub pages for weapons/items and for characters.  Obviously, with the minimal amount of time this game's been out compared to WW, we're still a good ways away from having full lists.   (Plus I don't think there's as many Okami fanatics yet as there are Zelda ones to keep playing and dig up all the names and the like).  We could make these sub pages now, one for characters, one for items and powers, but they'd be rather sparse, but this would allow for expansion beyond what would be there for cluttering up the main Okami page.  As the lists are presently, I think they're pretty good, nowhere near exhaustive, but give a start for someone looking into Okami's mythology references.Masem 15:27, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Hey, the tables say that making constellations isn't a brush stroke technique. But it is. It is the Sunrise technique. The Sunrise technique allows you to make stars (the sun is a star) and you have it at the beginning of the game. -- Anon, 22 October 2006

Metacritic link
Should I have added metacritic's entry for Okami in the External links? I'm unfamiliar with the policy of wiki in regards to such sites. --Havermayer 20:59, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Game references - listcruft or not
As noted by Stratadrake,the question is, is all the game references (even if pulled out of trivia and it's own section like I did) listcruft or not. Now, I note a lot of gaming wiki article have references of a game in other games but not references of a game in the present one, or at least not as common, which is the reverse of what we've got here so far. I think it's fair to reduce that list down to say something like "Okami has references to many other Capcom titles, including (list)", add a wiki comment that no addition references should be spelled out in Okami, but instead added to the appropriate game (so, like all the Viewtiful Joe refs should be in that article).Masem 05:43, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Previously, I remember taking out all those references and summarizing them as "Okami makes several references to other Capcom titles" (see previous topic above about trivia). Trivia-type sections are a double-edged sword in that they are an easy place for beginner editors, but because of it they have a tendency to accumulate useless tidbits and cruft.  As for which article should mention a specific reference and how, that's a bit hard to call; A alludes or makes a reference to B; if B is something that is often alluded to (e.g., Who's on First?), the reference is mentioned in B; but if B is something not referred to very often, or if A is notable for its making allusions to other topics, then listing the reference in B may seem out of place.  Overall, it's a matter of how important to the overall article the game references are -- it is notable that Okami draws so much from Japanese mythos; but how notable its minor references to other Capcom-made games is, that is the question. --Stratadrake 13:19, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Or, as the same issue was phrased regarding Mario Kart DS, Trivia sections are not a place for ordinary "random observations". For example, something like:

*Kaguya has a dome on her head, which might be a reference to Arieta from  Cyberbots .
 * if it is just a possible (i.e. unconfirmed) reference, simply does NOT belong (Wikipedia is not a publisher of original thought or a crystal ball). Lack of verifiability is also one of the arguments against Trivia sections. --Stratadrake 13:26, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I definitely don't disagree with that, because as noted, the references in Okami are not like appearances of other characters (as most VG references are), but moves and actions that are similar to other games. The Viewtiful Joe references are unmistakable, but the others (as best as I know) are like "Hmm, that could be referring to...", and thus I agree I think that for wiki standards, it should be condensed down to a single line: Okami references many other Capcom games, notably Viewtiful Joe.  (if necessary, support for that can be ref'd to the bottom of the page).   If any other the vg refs can be proven better, then they can be added to that statement, but again, specific details in refs if they are needed.  I agree that this article should be more on the mythology that Okami provides; the vg references are 'hey, cool' bonuses but can be listcruft if every single one is listed.Masem 14:59, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay then, summarizing the items up now. Just wait, someone will probably revert it and unleash the edit wars.  --Stratadrake 04:13, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I put in an inline HTML comment there, ref'ing to the talk page, and warning that any added game will be deleted.Masem 23:24, 3 November 2006 (UTC)