Talk:Žirmūnai/Archive 1

Did lots of stuff to it! It deserved it tho. Do have some questions, but computer has a nasty virus which must be taken care of soon, else work would have been lost. One quick note, a subsection called Parks would be nice..Hope to talk to you later...Novickas 15:46, 22 October 2006 (UTC) PS by deserved it I meant wonderful, important, deserving of attention! Ack, this virus! Novickas 15:51, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Questions
Some questions:

"Tuskulėnai, a former manor, was located opposite the St. Peter and St. Paul's Church in Antakalnis" I think this should come out if it isn't really part of the elderate.

try to desribe its situation regarding the other context if you can Iulius 21:44, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

"The most recent wooden suburb Losiovka (a Slavic placename with no literal meaning, expressing the idea of a 'place of elks') has existed further west since the 19th century." Is it part of the Žirmūnai elderate?

it has been. it meant to mean "further west from Tuskulėnai".Iulius 21:44, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

"(according to the data used for the 2001 census; later sources of Vilnius City Municipality give the area at 8.5 km² (2.1%) of Vilnius' total area)." Hey, that's really strange. Of course there might have been some kind of political decision to change its boundaries, but left as is, it sounds like the city is so disorganized that they lose track of what is where.

''The official website of municipality gives no clear up-to-date information on this. Perhaps the 2001 census data should be left in the meantime.'' Juozas Rimas 12:34, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

"along the right bank of Neris River" ; would that be the north, east, northeast, bank? Would have checked the map but the www.vilnius.lt website was not responding today.

the Žirmūnai' rignt bank is west,nort and south of Neris as well, so "right" is the most precise here Iulius 21:44, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

"The Vilnius Palace of Culture, Entertainment and Sports (built in 1980 as the Palace of Culture and Sports of the Ministry of Interior) is used for indoor sports," - which sports? Since details are nice.

vessel-like design - You wouldn't have a picture, would you? I vaguely remember this one...very striking and/or weird.


 * it is in the first picture on the left, although not entirelyIulius 21:44, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

The picture of the building (side-view) would be valuable: it will be demolished soon anyway, and there is no such building anywhere else. Juozas Rimas 12:34, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

It would be nice to find a replacement for the term "backwater", something more technical; backwater is a rather insulting word in English. (Try Googling it and see) If one could see it on a map, something might come to mind...

''See the map in the "External Links" section: the "backwater" is a little inlet in the middle of the map. It was used to park the rusting unused motor ships.''Juozas Rimas 12:34, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Novickas 21:27, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

9/11 docudrama
Do you happen to know any details about the filming of this feature in Žirmūnai? Did they demolish one of the old concrete apartment buildings? Novickas 22:53, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * i haven't heard anything about it? Where have you taken information from? By the Way, was it taken in Sporto rūmai or VRM Kultūros rūmai?Iulius 22:57, 6 November 2006 (UTC)


 * That was in the original article as written by User talk:Juozas Rimas - it's in the history - the mention is still there. That's all I know, but it's the kind of intriguing detail that can make an article. Novickas 23:03, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

BTW the http://www.vilnius.lt/ website is still not responding, it's been a couple of weeks now.. do you know anything about that?
 * it is working for me M.K. 23:11, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * try this http://www.vilnius.lt/newvilniusweb/index.php/1/?


 * Tried it, it still times out.. Maybe I should send tem an email Novickas 00:16, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

merge?
I just wondering maybe the part education should be merged to other one. Because it is now only few sentences M.K. 00:26, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
 * it should be expanded significantly. somebody should take this one.Iulius 00:31, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yep, this section is the only one which dramatically lags behind and prevents of further article assessment. M.K. 09:07, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Do we have volunteers to take Education part? :) M.K. 23:27, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
 * unfortunately it's too few of us to sit and wait for someone :D Iulius 07:29, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * nobody knows exactly that can happen here:P M.K. 11:08, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

I am still here with education. Is it really necessary to have this info under separate part, or maybe I missed some important details, which could justify its existence as separate block? M.K. 14:20, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

I think it would be nice to expand the education section, but am having trouble finding info on the gymnasiums. At least number of students would be nice, and which ones are university prep versus plain secondary schools. The website zirmunugimnazija.w3.lt/default.php for instance is pretty empty. And maybe some info about how they perform in the Olympiads. If that info were added it would seem like a justifable section, no?

Other things on my wish list for this page: more info on the microdistricts - their names, a layout drawing; details about demolition of various structures; don't really like the picture of the supermarket; local politics and disputes - there's always some! Found an interesting site at, sent them an email asking for permission to use their pictures, hope that works out, and will try and incorporate some of the info from there. CYA Novickas 15:20, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * For lack of info on education as separate article block I suggest to merge it with one of remaining blocks. About supermarket, hmm it is in commerce block; supermarket is associating with comm. and we do not have better pic. of this theme. M.K. 23:19, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * oh, come on... i had my monitor broken while editing that image :P Iulius 23:51, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * :) no need to be a hard on your PC. M.K. 23:58, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * no! I just edited it on a tv screen when had my monitor repaired Iulius 09:07, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Sorry to have disrespected your picture...hope your monitor is feeling better now. One last hope about the education section, maybe someone could call the schools and get number of students, dates of establishment? Novickas 02:29, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Now section looks better! M.K. 16:30, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
 * So, what about GA nomination? Iulius 12:04, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Waaaaaaaiiiitt!!!!!!! M.K. 23:54, 26 November 2006 (UTC) :)

Just chat
Hey, it's great to see education info! Also, I noticed the other day that some of those graves from Napoleon's ill-fated retreat were found here. Will put that in soon (unless someone else wants to). The University of Chicago did some interesting studies on the bones. Novickas 22:31, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
 * i would like to ask for a reference of the info concerning docudrama 9-11. Besides, when the article could be ready for a GA nomination? :) Iulius 09:11, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I added a reference to the BNS news agency information on the docudrama yesterday. For a GA nomination, I guess, we still need a good photo of Sporto Rūmai, sideview, and of Tuskulėnai Manor, perhaps of the columbarium as well :)

Please do put in the bone studies :) Juozas Rimas 09:28, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

As soon as the reconstruction of manor is finished I will get a photo Iulius 09:42, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

OT: now we have Žirmūnai presented as a prominent necropolis of some kind ;D Iulius 16:30, 15 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh, you gave me a great laugh! :) Right in the middle of the day! Well, it is what is, between the excavations and the old Soviet buidlings being demolished. Who know what else will turn up? (BTW I really don't care if the Mindaugas Bridge photo goes away). Novickas 17:54, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Mindaugas bridge
i doubt the inclusion of the bridge photo it is out-of-place, besides, there are no Žirmūnai visible. Iulius 09:46, 15 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I thought the Mindaugas Bridge links Žirmūnai with Antakalnis? So one side of the photo would be  Žirmūna ? Novickas 12:47, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

The Mindaugas Bridge links Žirmūnai and Šnipiškės with the Old City. Šnipiškės is visible in the photo. Anyway, I agree that the bridge is not associative with Žirmūnai, it only happens to be on the border with Šnipiškės.

On the other hand, there is no sign of Zirmunai in the photo of the Valakupiai Bridge either :) Juozas Rimas 16:04, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

but there is a trolleybus ,what is more important, besides, it fits better to the space Iulius 16:18, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Good Article
Was just looking at Old Louisville - an example of a neighborhood article that received Good Article status. Some things to think about:


 * It has several introductory paragraphs
 * It lists boundary streets
 * Mentions politics i.e. voted for Kerry in 2004
 * Demographic section mentions age cohorts
 * Is in five categories

It certainly isn't lacking in interest. Novickas 15:10, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

The frame in the top right corner of the Old Louisville page gives the article a more solid look. I think Tuskulėnai Manor should be in the image for Žirmūnai. Perhaps an old picture with an expired copyright could be used there, because the manor is under reconstruction and would not look very tidy in the picture. Juozas Rimas 15:38, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
 * on the other hand, Žirmūnai is not that inferior to this article contentwise Iulius 18:30, 20 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I totally agree. Novickas 19:14, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
 * and it just became better ;) Iulius 20:08, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I am a bit lack of time, but maybe major contributors of this article should agree that has to be done, before going to WP:GA, some task panel maybe. M.K. 00:09, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Added some more statistics. What is a task panel? I'm not skilled in the Wikipedia code. Juozas Rimas 21:51, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I just had in mind that editors should agree what must be improved next, before nominating to GA, nothing about coding :) M.K. 22:20, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

That's about it from my part: I can hardly think of more tasks to do for the article. I'm disinterested in politics and also doubt if there is elderate-specific information available on that. Please suggest other topics/tasks. Otherwise, the article may be nominated for a higher status. It's now twice as big as the Vilnius article anyway :) Juozas Rimas 21:06, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Well done. Nothing seems lacking too much indeed. It could be nominated Iulius 23:26, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes very nice job! I have a bit of suggestions :) Firstly, Ethnicity part badly needs references. As article itself is quite big, the lead of article is disproportional, it should be expanded as per WP:LEAD. I also tagged some parts of article with fact, I think in these places should be put proper refs. If you think it is unnecessary please remove them. Probably before nominating it peer review could be wise solution. M.K. 00:06, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

A ref for Ethnicity would be the same ref repeated 3 times in the same section (Vilnius Regional Statistical Office. Statistical study on Vilnius' population) - is it okay when a ref is so repetitive? Juozas Rimas 10:42, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
 * When using the exact source (usually web), you should not repeat all syntax of references, but you can do this trick, you need just copy the beginning of the first reference . (open edit tos see the trick :)). I believe some references still missing about Žirmūnai is also a place of Lithuania‘s largest stadium and the Palace as well as and Impuls Plus, the largest fitness facility in the Baltic states. again this Public discussion of the disaster was forbidden and the number of casualties remains unknown; and this Tuskulėnai Manor is Žirmūnai's oldest extant architectural structure. M.K. 00:05, 27 November 2006 (UTC) P.S. maybe the info box will be useful, see example above?


 * I agree with MK - let's just wait a day or two...Novickas 00:20, 27 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Well I too have now reached "satiation", as Juozas put it. Tried to address MK's concerns about some references by re-wording, but "oldest extant structure" remains a problem. I wonder if the remains of Napoleon's army have ever been mentioned in a DYK. Now, of course, we need a separate article for the Peace Park, and for Concertu Rumai, ir t.t. So in the original article, it mentioned that the Rumai is still used for less-formal events; or at least that was how I interpreted it, I hope that was correct. So which other peers should we consult, or does everyone want to submit it now? Novickas 14:07, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
 * You a bit misunderstand me, the words largest, oldest, biggest and so on, is not the problem; but usually such strong words should have ref., if anybody can provide proper ref. with biggest, oldest etc. it will do the trick. Sadly DYK opportunity is missed because only new articles (not older then 5d.) are listed in DYK, or article should be a stub which during these days dramatically undergone expansion. In other words this article is too old :(  M.K. 16:16, 28 November 2006 (UTC)P.s. just wondering if we really need all these name explanations in various languages?

Finding a reference saying "Tuskulėnai Manor is the oldest structure in Žirmūnai elderate" is hardly possible. That there are no more really old buildings in Žirmūnai is an empirical observation, similar to that "structures are currently undergoing restoration". I'd leave name explanations: I'm of opinion that etymology of significant terms, placenames etc always enriches articles Juozas Rimas 20:52, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Not necessary the exact 100% quotation, key word is the oldest. But maybe it would be no big problem and with out a ref. So what do you think, should we press for nomination, now? M.K. 22:25, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
 * its just about the time. further improvements will always be possible. Besides I do not like the infobox, it seems artificial and little informative... Iulius 11:04, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Nominating article should be stable - no major content edits M.K. 13:53, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

You mean "stable for the period of nomination"? How long is that period? Another issue: what could serve as "peer review" with regard to this article? Juozas Rimas 16:10, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

In principle I agree on the infobox. However, it is a sort of "traditional item" in Wikipedia, as far as I remember from reading articles about mountains and other geographical objects. Of course, the photo should not repeat itself in the infobox and later in the article. More information could be added into the box. In any case, the coordinates should stay somewhere in the article. Juozas Rimas 13:21, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Provided infobox by me is just example, you can change it colors (they coded with letters for example: DABDAB), plus add more rows like population, density, urbanization etc., in this way you can build comprehensive infobox.M.K. 13:53, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Use this List of colors to change the colors in infobox. M.K. 20:54, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Access to vilnius.lt
I still cannot access anything from this site. Left a message on Renata's talk User talk:Renata3 about it. Will try anything but Internet Explorer! Novickas 21:22, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
 * IE is the best :) M.K. 00:09, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Yet another interesting link
Check out: entitled "who is buried in Vilna Gaon's tomb?" Discusses the cemetery, refers to the area as "Shnipishok"?? Novickas 23:25, 20 November 2006 (UTC)