Talk:-lock

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Shouldn't the Proto-Germanic nominative form be -laikaz? According to Lena Peterson, this was the case for Proto-Norse and it is attested as -laikaz on runestones.--Berig (talk) 17:33, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

you are right, of course, that the Scandinavian is leik-r, from *laika-z, but these are parts of male personal names, so of course you'd expect them to take the male form, this doesn't tell us anything about the gender of the simplex noun. I've seen the neuter reconstruction somewhere, but I forget where at present, perhaps in Grimm, possibly based on Leich being of neuter gender? dab (𒁳) 11:28, 27 December 2007 (UTC)


 * This etymological dictionary says that the simplex noun was leikr in ON which means that it was a masculine noun. It also says that the Gothic form was laiks which means that the Gothic form also was a masculine noun. Since the masculine nominative endings -r in ON and -s in Gothic go back to a PG masculine nominative ending -az you'd expect the PG form to have been laikaz. However, the etymological dictionary I referred to only gives the PG root as the verb laika-. Maybe -laikom refers to a verbal construction?--Berig (talk) 11:44, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

you are right -- and especially since I don't remember where I got the laikom from (I am sure I didn't just make it up), we should probably go with laikaz for now. Grimm notes Leich as either neuter or masculine, so the German evidence isn't convincing either way.
 * 1) der grundbegriff einer rhythmischen bewegung zeigt sich manigfach in der ältern sprache, so im goth. laiks χορος, altnord. leikr, spiel, gesellschaftsspiel, tanz, ags. lâc, tanz, aber auch das feierliche schreiten zum opfer und das opfer selbst, ferner wettstreit und selbst kampf; heute ist davon mundartlich englisch noch laik spiel, getändel übrig, wie schwed. lek, dän. leg spiel, unterhaltung. ahd. mhd. erscheint das wort zwar vornehmlich in der unten folgenden bedeutung, nur in zusammensetzungen wie ahd. chlafleih fragor, mhd. weterleich blitz gilt leich von der spielenden bewegung des wetterschlags; dasz aber die bedeutung spiel einst auch im hochdeutschen sonst verbreitet gewesen, ergibt der umschlag in den örtlichen sinn eines spielplatzes, schon ahd. 
 * 2) leich, im hochd. vornehmlich die weise eines tanzes oder gesanges: ahd. leih modus, modulus 
 * 3) leich, bairisch der possen den man einem spielt. 

--dab (𒁳) 14:39, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I am sure that you did not invent the -om ending :). It could be the plural dative case of both the masculine and neuter genders, if it was the same in PG as it was in ON.--Berig (talk) 14:57, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

"The suffix -lock in Modern English survives only in wedlock." What about gridlock, or deadlock, or dreadlock?--Atlantima (talk) 02:15, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
 * um, they are completely unrelated nouns used as the second member in a compound? In the first two cases lock as in "shut", in the dreadlock case lock as in "curly hair". --dab (𒁳) 05:00, 1 September 2008 (UTC)