Talk:...And Justice for All (song)

Any B-sides listed
any b sides listed seeing as though this is a single, the b sides should be listed.thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.208.114.229 (talk) 19:52, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Meaning
I don't see how the lyrics have anything to do death at all least of all Cliff's death. That's a rediculous stretch and there is obviously no citation for it; should it not be removed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.79.6.149 (talk) 03:50, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

An alternate meaning could be explained by the similiar writing style of this song to other Metallica songs. Many of Metallica's songs are about anger, angst, and similar themes, and this song seems to be no different. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.146.209.226 (talk) 01:03, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Factual accuracy
The article states that ...And Justice for All was played at the PlayBoy[sic] mansion in 1997 then later claims the 2007 performance of the song was the first time in 18 years it had been played - can someone resolve this contradictory information? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.250.37.189 (talk) 21:37, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

If you read carefully they said that the song was played in its entirety for the first time since October 1989. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Elidias (talk • contribs) 06:09, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

NOR
Nothing in the source you cited supports the statement: "This particular song is example of Metallica's greater awareness of social issues operated as part of general development of social and/or political awareness with thrash metal. These assertions went a good way towards linking thrash metal to the tradition of rock music as a vehicle for political expressions." This is your own analysis of published material that serves to advance a position not advanced by the source (WP:OR). The song is not the topic of the source you cited and is not mentioned in the page you cited, unless you cited the wrong page. Dan56 (talk) 21:50, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I see that Dan56 is responding to Вик Ретлхед, who added this, and other problematic things before it, to the article. Dan56 is correct. There's not much to add on to what he has stated on the matter. WP:Original research (WP:OR), which WP:SYNTHESIS is a part of, is policy. I suggest that if Вик Ретлхед continues to add WP:Original research to this article, then Dan56 take this matter to the No original research/Noticeboard. Flyer22 (talk) 23:21, 16 June 2013 (UTC)


 * The cited author, Glenn Pillsbury, describes in the book how Metallica did not quite step up to the mark in terms of making social statements like other thrash metal bands such as Anthrax and Testament. He says that Metallica did not ever come out directly against war, for instance. Pillsbury writes: "...Metallica and other bands stepped back from embracing political expression..." Basically, Pillsbury is saying that Metallica cannot be considered a band that expresses anything about social issues. Instead, the songs express personal issues. Binksternet (talk) 23:25, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

I think we've got three topics for discussion. I'll go one by one.


 * First issue: About the Punknews.org reviewer - my mistake, I thought he was professional writer under pseudonym.


 * Second issue: To the third discussant, that's just how you interpret the book. Incorrect according to me. It clearly says that Metallica with this song started including political issues in their lyrics, which was later accepted by other contemporaries. You might be reading the wrong page or something else. And for Danny's response, those two sentence are not my interpretation, they're extracts (without mentioning Megadeth's album) that are referring to the song.


 * You're not supposed to "interpret" the book. If it says something explicitly about the song, you state that. It says nothing about the song. It merely mentioned "...And Justice for All" in passing in this sentence, which is part of a discussion about something entirely different: "In their urging of political action, both songs operate far more clearly as recognizable political expression than Metallica's 'And Justice for All' or 'Eye of the Beholder.'" The author does not say anything about this song being an example of anything, so stop it. It's clearly your own spin and synthesis of the author's ideas into something you'd like to be said about this song. Point to a passage in the book that discusses this song. If you cant, why are you using this source? Dan56 (talk) 14:38, 17 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Third (and most important) issue: This discussion is by no mean connected to the rest of my edits. With that in mind, this dispute is no excuse for primitive acts of retaliation like these two (1 and 2).--Вик Ретлхед (talk) 10:36, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

That was my last post on this project. I will accept any decision you make on this topic. Just to apologize if I caused you too much trouble or wasted your time vainly. That's all from me. Good bye and have a nice day.--Вик Ретлхед (talk) 12:06, 17 June 2013 (UTC)


 * The pages I was reading in the Pillsbury book are about Metallic writing the song "...And Justice for All", with mentions of Anthrax and Testament being much more interested in social issues than Metallica. Pages 83–84 of Damage Incorporated cover the issue in detail, saying that Metallica portrays political issues in a "detached" and "documentary" manner with the song. Page 89 says the song is about "personal independence and control", not social or political issues. Page 93 says Metallica's meager political content is "detached" from the band's persona of being independent of social issues—being above all of that friction. Page 97 says that the song's political content is delivered in a "detached" manner, that it is more about control. Page 124 says that the song is about control and independence, with lyric discussing the ties between large corporations and the government. Again, Pillsbury describes a band that does not instruct the audience to advocate for a certain political outcome. Metallica is not a political band. Binksternet (talk) 12:29, 17 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Source that describes the song--Вик Ретлхед (talk) 15:04, 17 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Dispute closed.--Вик Ретлхед (talk) 15:18, 17 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Retrohead, I don't think we are done here. Binksternet (talk) 18:35, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Redirect to the album page
Hi. I want to propose making this a redirect to its parent article. It's not an official single, not a notable song by Metallica (at least that's what the lack of sources indicate) and doesn't contain much referenced material.--Вик Ретлхед (talk) 22:21, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Support redirect/merge - I don't think there is enough coverage or sources on the song itself to satisfy NSONG. The1337gamer (talk) 18:41, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
 * its a promotional single and therefore warrants an own article. we even got an extra secion on the metallica template specifically for promo songs Urgal (talk) 00:53, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Article should be restored
Article should be brought back, its a promo single and we have an extra secion for that, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Metallica Literally cant name a single reason why it should be deleted. the fact that there were tries to bring the article back by other users (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...And_Justice_for_All_(song)&diff=641145590&oldid=580815701&diffmode=source) shows that there isnt a consensus either. Urgal (talk) 01:06, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose Sorry but we have notability guidelines established by consensus, this fails WP:NSONG. Polyamorph (talk) 10:03, 14 May 2020 (UTC)