Talk:.257 Roberts

Whole new page
I did a fresh rewrite of this because of the copyvio. All it needs now is for someone to replace the copyvio version with this one, and an image would be nice if anyone has one. I put a lot of work into this, I think it's pretty nice now. Arthurrh 23:32, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Weasel Words
First para. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.194.230.23 (talk) 20:54, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Arisaka Rechamber
I have one of the WWII Arisaka rifles which has been rechambered. It wasn't converted to .257 Roberts as the 6.5mm bore is larger than the .257. Instead it was made to accept a .257 Roberts case resized to hold a 6.5mm bullet. This is actually a somewhat common wildcat, and you can find reloading dies if you hunt around a bit. According to my grandfather the rifles were rechambered to improve performance. One had to load one's own ammunition either way, but, according to him at least, the original Arisaka round was underpowered for the length of the bullet and had a tendency to tumble in flight. The rechambered version doesn't have that problem. The last time my father used the one I have he could hold a 3" group at 600yds with the original iron sights. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.81.152.74 (talk) 04:13, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Dead link
During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!


 * http://www.accuratepowder.com/data/PerCaliber2Guide/Rifle/Standarddata(Rifle)/257cal(6.55mm)/257%20Roberts%20(standard)%20pages%20215%20and%20216.pdf
 * In .257 Roberts on 2011-05-20 21:36:09, 404 Not Found
 * In .257 Roberts on 2011-05-31 04:49:01, 404 Not Found

--JeffGBot (talk) 04:49, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Dead link 2
During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!


 * http://www.chuckhawks.com/subscribers/rifle_cartridge_page/257Rob.htm
 * In .257 Roberts on 2011-05-20 21:36:09, 401 Authorization Required
 * In .257 Roberts on 2011-05-31 04:49:12, 401 Authorization Required

--JeffGBot (talk) 04:49, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Dead link 3
During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!


 * http://www.accuratepowder.com/data/PerCaliber2Guide/Rifle/Standarddata(Rifle)/257cal(6.55mm)/257%20roberts+%20P%20pages%20217%20and%20218.pdf
 * In .257 Roberts on 2011-05-20 21:36:09, 404 Not Found
 * In .257 Roberts on 2011-05-31 04:49:21, 404 Not Found

--JeffGBot (talk) 04:49, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Dead link 4
During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!


 * http://www.accuratepowder.com/data/PerCaliber2Guide/Rifle/Standarddata(Rifle)/257cal(6.55mm)/250%203000%20Savage%20pages%20213%20and%20214.pdf
 * In .250-3000 Savage on 2011-05-20 21:36:09, 404 Not Found
 * In .250-3000 Savage on 2011-05-31 04:48:51, 404 Not Found

--JeffGBot (talk) 04:49, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Dead link 5
During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!


 * http://www.accuratepowder.com/data/PerCaliber2Guide/Rifle/Standarddata(Rifle)/257cal(6.55mm)/257%20Roberts%20Ackley%20IMP%2040deg%20pages%20219%20and%20220.pdf
 * In .257 Roberts on 2011-05-20 21:36:09, 404 Not Found
 * In .257 Roberts on 2011-05-31 04:49:41, 404 Not Found

--JeffGBot (talk) 04:50, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Dead link 6
During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!


 * http://www.accuratepowder.com/data/PerCaliber2Guide/Rifle/Standarddata(Rifle)/257cal(6.55mm)/25%2006%20Remington%20pages%20221%20to%20222.pdf
 * In .25-06 Remington on 2011-05-20 21:36:09, 404 Not Found
 * In .25-06 Remington on 2011-05-31 04:48:11, 404 Not Found

--JeffGBot (talk) 04:50, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Dead link 7
During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!


 * http://www.accuratepowder.com/data/PerCaliber2Guide/Rifle/Standarddata(Rifle)/257cal(6.55mm)/257%20Weatherby%20Magnum%20page%20223.pdf
 * In .257 Roberts on 2011-05-20 21:36:09, 404 Not Found
 * In .257 Roberts on 2011-05-31 04:50:01, 404 Not Found

--JeffGBot (talk) 04:50, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Article conflicts w/ info' in current issue of "Shooting Times" magazine
I just read an article in the current issue (? December 2011 ) of "Shooting Times" about the 0.257 Roberts. There are many important conflicts in Wikipedia article with the Shooting Times article, so I initially did not trust the Wikipedia article. The SAAMI pressure specifications in the Wiki seemed unusually high for many cartridges, and are nearly 10,000-psi higher than for the .257-Roberts pressures from my memory of what was in the magazine. I have checked the current (voluntary) SAAMI specifications for commercial manufacture of cartridges for the .257-Roberts and found a recommended 54,000-psi Maximum Average Pressure (MAP), and for the .257-Roberts+P the MAP is 58000-psi. These pressures are not unusually high for modern cartridges, and are lower than other 0.25-inch bores.

The creator of the .257-Roberts was a NY National Guard Major Ned Roberts who spent 10-yrs developing the round, not the rugby player linked in the Wiki article. The Shooting Times author wrote that he could uncover little about Major Ned Roberts except that he was a well known shooter in Schuetzen matches with single-shot rifles shortly before the turn of the 20th Century, but the correct smokeless powder for loading the .257-Roberts was not available until the early 1930's. The .257-Roberts was a popular wildcat round before the first factory ammunition was standardized in 1934, by Remington as stated. Major Roberts specified a case with a 15-degree shoulder angle, but the case the factory adopted had the same 20-degree shoulder angle as the 7-mm and 8-mm Mauser so the 0.257-Roberts cartridge would feed reliably from the magazines of "bring-home" German Mod-98 Mausers and earlier year Mausers from Spain without modifications to the magazine, extractor, and bolt face by a gunsmith. The Spanish Mauser actions were not as strong. Re-barreled Spanish Mauser rifles were deemed too weak for a factory load suited to the full pressures capable in a re-barreled Mod-98 action. Thus the factory and SAAMI specification ammunition was initially offered at lower pressures that were safe to use in the older actions. After 40-yrs, the SAAMI decided that few of the .257-Roberts Spanish Mausers remained in use and upped the MAP for sporting ammunition to safe levels for more modern actions, including re-barrelled Model 98 Mausers. Owners of the weaker Spanish Mausers need to handload down to lower pressures suited for the weaker actions. I assume that the lower pressures in "Shooting Times" are those in the old 1934 SAAMI spec's.

I cannot remember the posted website for the "Shooting Times" reference pages. I'll need to edit this discussion posting a third time. 199.217.0.88 (talk) 09:48, 20 December 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.217.0.88 (talk) 10:22, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Comparison table
The old Accurate Powder PDFs are offline now. The new Accurate Powder manual has load data for new powders, but some inconsistencies:
 * Old methodology for Roberts cartridges was to test the pressure of factory ammo and publish loads which did not exceed factory pressures (47,000 and 51,000 psi). New manual lists loads with Ramshot powders running right up to SAAMI pressure limits (54,000 and 58,000 psi). I have inserted this new data.
 * Accurate manual also has loads for the WSSM now, so I updated that data and the reference.
 * In the old Accurate manual, 257 Roberts AI used CCI-200 primers and 26" barrel. It is now listed with Federal primers and a 24" barrel... but the velocities and pressures have not changed! So one version of that load book is in error. I updated the listing with data from the Nosler manual which has slightly lower velocity in a 24" barrel.
 * Accurate manual doesn't include 250 Savage data for new powder Ramshot Hunter, which gives best velocities in several other of these cartridges, so I used the Hunter data from Nosler manual.

In this edit I also:
 * inserted the new Accurate Powder data into the Ballistics section of the infobox.
 * Replaced two of the membership-required chuckhawks references with CotW which says the same thing.
 * Updated the reference on the +P pressures to the SAAMI document.

StraightAsADie (talk) 01:50, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

6,3 x 57 mm Farè
C.I.P. has standardized the 6,3 x 57 mm Farè http://www.cip-bobp.org/homologation/uploads/tdcc/tab-i/6-3-x-57-fare-en.pdf. This cartridge appears to be a .257 Roberts Ackley Improved, it has 40° shoulders and case head is identical to 257 Roberts. The only dimension I'm unsure of is how far forward the shoulders have been blown. Farè Flavio after whom this cartridge is named seems to be a custom gun maker from Italy: https://bluebookofgunvalues.com/Gun_Values/Gun_Manufacturer.aspx?id=FLAVIO_FARÈ http://www.kelbly.com/articles-brochures/articles/supershoot-articles/PS%20Aug%202010%20super%20shoot.pdf This cartridge wouldn't be notable in itself, however as a standardized version of the .257 Roberts AI, perhaps it rates a mention on this page. StraightAsADie (talk) 11:55, 16 July 2013 (UTC)