Talk:.410 bore

Move from .410 gauge to .410 bore

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the debate was to move this article

While ".410 gauge" is about twice as common as ".410 bore" (based on Google hits) the correct term is .410 bore. I propose moving the article to .410 bore, and noting that "guage" is a common, but not technically correct, designation. Shotgun and ammunition makers correctly designate their products as .410 bore (www.mossberg.com, www.remington.com) and I think that is a far stronger basis for naming the article than the common mis-use of the term "gauge". scot 19:33, 4 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Fine, but keep ".410 gauge" as a redirect.The Dogfather 21:20, 4 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Absolutely--I should have mentioned that. And probalby "410 gauge" as well, since the "real" gauges don't use a decimal.  scot 21:25, 4 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Keep. Note that .410 bore is uncommon enough that nobody so far has even felt the need to create a redirect from it.  The notion of "technical incorrectness" simply doesn't hold water.  Gene Nygaard 13:20, 5 January 2006 (UTC)


 * By that argument, the primary pronunciation of "nuclear" should be listed as "nu-kya-lur", not "nu-clear" (see http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/nuclear) because most people mispronounce it that way. And if that arguement doens't work, consider it this way:  where are you going to find verifiable, export source information on ".410 gauge"?  scot 16:53, 5 January 2006 (UTC)


 * So, why "bore" rather than "caliber"?
 * Lot's of people talk about "12 bore" shotguns, too. In fact, Google gives more hits for shotgun and "12 bore" than for shotgun and "410 bore" (it doesn't pay any attention to the decimal point). Gene Nygaard 20:08, 5 January 2006 (UTC)


 * While the term "12 bore" does show up, there's a 20:1 discrepancy between that and "12 gauge" (17k vs. 364k hits). The term "bore", other than for .410 bore, has fallen out of use by everyone except the British.  As to why not "caliber", shotguns just aren't described by "caliber", because "caliber" indicates a precision that just doesn't exist in shotgun barrels.  Frankly, ".410 bore" is a gross overstatement, as it's really "somewhere between .40 and .45 bore"--.444 Marlin cases work just fine as all brass .410 shells, albeit at only about 2 1/8" length, and .410 slugs run from under .39" to .43" in diameter.
 * Of course, I'm still going to state that the fact that the manufacturers all call it ".410 bore" is the clincher. scot 21:28, 5 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Move Both Bore and Gauge refer to the diameter (or caliber) of a gun's barrel. However, as the chart on Gauge (bore diameter) shows, the Gauge and caliber are inversely proportional, thus a gun with a ".410 gauge" would have an incredibly large caliber (far larger than .410 inches). Unfortunately, a shotgun with a .410 inch bore is never referred to by its true gauge (it's a 67 gauge shotgun according to our article). As highlighted by external links that have now been added to this article's page, the term .410 gauge is incorrect. I therefore support a move to .410 bore, which will of course mean that a redirect is left at .410 gauge. --Lox (t,c) 16:11, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

This article has been renamed as the result of a move request.: Two votes for (plus nomination) to one against --Lox (t,c) 11:45, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, not entirely sure how, but I got my dates confused and this page was moved after consensus was reached but before the prescribed 5 days. I don't really know whether I should now revert all my changes (link fixes and page move), or just wait for the end of five days. Apologies again! --Lox (t,c) 12:06, 8 January 2006 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Photograph Added
I took the liberty to put a photo on the article, as there was none, and as several people not involved in firearms have no idea what such a shell would look like (and .410s aren't as likely to be seen on most shooting ranges as more popular shells, like the 12 gauge.)If anyone has a problem with this, let me know. Rookie Rover 09:22, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Comment: Your photo depicts a .45 ACP cartridge alongside the several shotshells. .410 bore guns can fire 45 Colt in certain cases, not .45 ACP - these are two different cartridges. 45 Colt (aka 45 Long Colt) is a revolver round with a rimmed base, similar to the construction of the shotshell. 45 ACP has a grooved base, as it's used in autoloading pistols (M1911-A1 and so forth). This needs to be corrected.

(Sorry, I have no idea how to properly inject this comment into the format.. but I needed to make the correction. Thanks, ML) 66.41.18.84 13:51, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm well aware that the .410 and .45 Colt are more of a 'connection' so to speak, but I only included the .45 ACP round for size comparison purposes, not to instill some idea that the .45 ACP and .410 can be used interchangeably. In the beer bottle article, there is a photograph of several beer bottles sitting on a table, that doesn't mean that the recommended way to open a beer bottle is to break it on a table.Rookie Rover (talk) 01:25, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Tag & Assess 2008
Removing MilHist Tag as there is no reference in the article to any military force using this ammunition. --dashiellx (talk) 16:28, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
 * As noted (and cited) in the Lee-Enfield article, some Indian and Australian Enfields were converted to fire .410 shotshells. 75.76.213.106 (talk) 07:04, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
 * And don't forget the Springfield Armory M6 Scout. The .45-70 "forager" rounds were also virtually identical to the .410, which will chamber and fire in some .45 caliber firearms.  scot (talk) 15:42, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
 * The Indian .410 muskets DID NOT chamber .410 shotgun shells. They were chambered for the .410 Musket cartridge, which is based on the .303 British rifle cartridge, in fact being simply a .303 cartridge that did not have the shoulder and neck formed on the case.  Many .410 muskets have been rechambered to accept .410 shotgun shells, but that was a modification performed by civilian gunsmiths and was never done in military or police service.  Likewise the Australian (and British) .410 Lee Enfields were .303 rifles that were rechambered by civilian gunsmiths, in order to circumvent laws restricting civilian ownership of rifles.  No Lee Enfield was ever chambered in .410 shotgun while in military service.


 * That the .45-70 foraging cartridge can be crammed into some .410 shotguns is irrelevant. The ammunition was not issued for use in .410 shotguns, nor were .410 shotguns issued with the intent of being loaded with .45-70 foraging cartridges.  Many things are possible that are neither wise nor authorized.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.152.117.19 (talk) 12:31, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

Dead link
During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!


 * http://winchester.com/products/catalog/shotlist.aspx?use=4&gauge=410
 * In .410 bore on 2011-05-20 21:37:22, 404 Not Found
 * In .410 bore on 2011-05-31 12:54:41, 404 Not Found

--JeffGBot (talk) 12:54, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Annie Oakley
Since I was a kid I've heard that Annie Oakley dazzled crowds by shooting objects thrown into the air with a .45 caliber rifle. The story goes that she cheated a little by firing .410 shotgun shells in the rifle. If true this would be an interest-getter for this article, but I can't seem to verify the story. Can anyone out there help me find if this story is true? Pb8bije6a7b6a3w (talk) 00:58, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

History
I have added the known dates relating to Eleys history of the .410. However, they do not appear to claim that they were first to introduce this cartridge. If someone can provide evidence of an earlier introduction please add the information. (SM527RR (talk) 23:39, 8 April 2014 (UTC))

.410 is not a "gauge"...
This is a common misconception.

".410" is a caliber, and refers to .41 inches in diameter.

A ".38 Special" shot shell is .38 caliber, not .38 gauge.

To help the confusion farther, a 20 "gauge" shell is larger than a .38 "caliber" shell.

"caliber" and "gauge" are not interchangeable.

(I have no comment on "bore", as that is not part of the size nomenclature I use)

I would appreciate it if someone would make this article accurate.

Kurt Schultz thipdar (ta) comcast (tod) net 2601:648:8400:31EA:D05:EE79:11C:69E5 (talk) 22:36, 10 September 2019 (UTC)