Talk:.45 GAP

Size "advantage"
From the article: "Since nearly all semi-automatic pistols store cartridges in the grip frame, the smaller overall length allows a smaller grip diameter which means that even a double-column pistol can have a grip that is easily handled by most adults."

Where was this nonsense ripped or ejected from? Excluding compact/sub-compact pistols, there is no smaller grip advantage. The size difference in the Glock 37's grip and a Glock 17 is indeed different and the Glock 37 is smaller - but by mere millimeters as far as I'm aware. I just don't see how this argument can be used outside of compact/sub-compact handguns, because the grip size in full-size .45 GAP autoloaders really isn't that much smaller at all. --Sturmwehr 19:56, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Also from it: "The width of all three pistols is listed by the manufacturer as 1.18", compared with 1.27" for the .45 ACP Glock 21 and Glock 30, indicating that Glock was able to not only shorten the front to back size of the grip, but also the grip width." The narrower frame is because the .45 GAP pistols are single-stack magazines, not because somehow Glock managed to make a .45 that is narrower than 45/100's of an inch. You can see that a compact G39 only has 6 rounds vs 10 for the compact G30, and there is a similar difference in the fullsize G37 vs G21. The notion that the cartridge of the same diameter allows for a narrower gun is pretty obviously flawed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.118.253.34 (talk) 14:51, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

The article itself states that the cartridge was designed for a more compact pistol. at the request of firearms manufacturer Glock to provide a cartridge that would equal the power of the .45 ACP but was shorter to fit in a more compact handgun. Mullhawk (talk) 05:17, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Versatility vs. ACP?
Can someone provide a sourced explanation as to why the .45 GAP is 'less versatile' than then .45 ACP? 24.3.142.198 13:25, 8 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't think you can really prove it with a source that isn't opinion based, but it's widely accepted among many in the firearms world. Much like how many will agree a pick-up truck is more versatile than a Lamborghini. --Sturmwehr (talk) 17:22, 28 December 2007 (UTC)


 * The operative word is versatility. The 45 GAP is less versatile because it can be fired from few gun models. I did get a chuckle out of the comparison of a Glock to a Lamborghini. In any case, the real reason for the 45 GAP is glossed over in the article, and it is that Glock 45 ACP guns suffered from "Glock bulge" due to insufficient chamber support of the 45 ACP case. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.1.207.4 (talk) 14:44, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Conversion Kits
Just wondering if all the gun makers will be making .45 G.A.P kits,..or will they just make a new model line for that cartrige ? I have a Springfield armory XD-40 and I'm ready for a big .45-Cal.

Bud,from Michigan

Edited above for consistent formatting --Nicklinn 15:11, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Legality & Mexico
I am not 100% clear on this but the article lists Mexico as a place the round could be useful for civilian use. However according to this article (which is somewhat confusing in itself): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Mexico A civilian cannot own a handgun round larger then a .380. Can someone clarify? --Nicklinn 15:08, 28 February 2007 (UTC)


 * The idea is that, in Mexico, as per Article 10 of the Constitution, "military" calibers aren't allowed for civilian use. The .45 GAP is new and has not yet been formally named a "military" caliber by the mexican government.  As such, in theory, the .45 GAP may be ok.  But don't count on that.  Besides, it's all moot I think.  Regardless of what the "letter of the law" is in Mexico, in practice you've probably got a 99% chance of going to prison for even being in the same room with a firearm.  —Thernlund (Talk 21:14, 28 February 2007 (UTC)


 * That's as maybe, but this is all unsourced speculation/original research about the state of Mexican laws vis-a-vis handguns. Provide a source on this, otherwise leave it out.  24.3.142.198 13:26, 8 April 2007 (UTC)


 * According to Gun politics in Mexico, anything over .380 ACP or .38 Special is prohibited, so that would cover the .45 GAP. scot 15:10, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

230 grain bullets
I took the 230 grain bullet velocity out and put in 185 and 200 grains. I was wrong when I commented that no one loads the 230; Winchester does, but at a lower velocity than their .45 ACP 230 grain loadings, where the 185 grain loads are about the same for .45 ACP and .45 GAP. I think that Winchester offers the 230 grain bullet because they don't have a 200 grain bullet, and they want to offer more than one weight. The 230 grain GAP loading from Winchester generates 355 ft-lbs at the muzzle, a good 60 ft-lbs lower in muzzle energy than the 185 grain loading, while most .45 ACP 230 grain loadings generate over 400 ft. lbs. and .45 ACP +P 230 grain loads can break 500 ft. lbs. While the Winchester 230 grain loading is actually slightly higher in velocity in the GAP compared to the ACP load, this is also comparing a 23kpsi load to a 21kpsi limit on the .45 ACP, and the .45 ACP is probalby nowhere near the limit. A +P load in .45 ACP will almost always beat out the GAP loading because with the fast powders used in pistols, a larger chamber lets you flatten the pressure curve and get more area under the curve with the same peak.

WPMILHIST
The WPMILHIST tag has been removed because this article (at this time) is not military related.--Oldwildbill 07:46, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I like how the picture compares the 45 GAP to many other bullets....EXCEPT the 45 ACP which I was looking for.

The comparison image (Image:9mm 7,62mm 357sig 10mm 45SW 45GAP 50AE 002.jpg) caption indicates that the round to the left of the .45GAP is a .45SW, but it looks like a .40SW to me. Don't know of a .45SW. Jasperman 17:59, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

GAP or G.A.P.?
Given that the article text consistently uses "G.A.P." (which is the proper name of the cartridge), shouldn't the article be moved to .45 G.A.P.? Redxiv 07:07, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

market response
"After its adoption, the .45 G.A.P. already proven itself as a vast improvement over the 9x19mm, when an injured New York State Trooper fired one shot from her Glock Model 37 and stopped her assailant."

No reference. The wording is opinion. Also, general USA-centrism of the article. And finally, as they say, the plural of anecdote is not data. This is not even multiple anecdotes.

Disclosure: I am European and happen to not believe that bigger slower bullets must necessairily be better than smaller faster ones. I don't believe the reverse must be true either.

My readings suggest that there is more opinion than verifyable fact available, and that opinions offered tend to be more indicative of cultural background than anything else.

My real complaint, however, and one that needs addressing regardless of anyone's beliefs on the subject, is that the quoted is a poor piece of encyclopedic content. 85.178.80.186 20:15, 30 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I've removed it. The fact that police departments are switching is certainly enough of an endorsement of the caliber.  And as for Europeans, well, let me just quote Ian Fleming on the .32 ACP:  "With a delivery like a brick through a plate glass window."  From  Dr. No.  Apparently from Maj. Boothroyd was from the "small and slow" school.  scot 20:36, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

45SW ?
45 SW is probably confused by 40 SW here. The text that describes the picture when It's extracted shows: "File:9mm 7,62mm 357sig 10mm 45SW 45GAP 50AE 002.jpg" 40 SW is what I'am aiming at. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hoch88 (talk • contribs) 09:32, 30 June 2012 (UTC)