Talk:01011001/Archive 1

Connect the dots torrents
WTH is this about torrents in "Connect The Dots"? There's nothing like that on the record. Vandalism or propaganda?

There is reference to TV and video games. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.23.56.250 (talk) 18:33, 3 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Hmm. Well, I read the lyrics to the song, and I got these lyrics.

I checked the web and left it on over night Downloading all the latest files Fear, revere, the torrent flows into my lap And I disconnect


 * Well, it does mention torrents, so it's appropriate to leave on the article.


 * And you say there's a reference to TV and viceo games? Let's see about that.

I rushed back home to my family I got my son a brand new game No need to cook, I picked up fast food on the way And it's finger-licking good

Have you seen little Steve today? Guess he's still up there in his room But if he comes down to I'll be right here just staring at the tune Playing his game


 * Yeah, that could be either a board game or a video game. I don't know what's being referred to when Ty is "staring at the tune". The tune probably is the TV, but I'm not completely sure.

B T C 19:33, 3 August 2008 (UTC)


 * It's *tube* not tune. Common English (or at least American) slang for television. Kouban (talk) 03:07, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Oh, okay. I knew there was something fishy about that. I kind of copied and pasted the lyrics from metal-archives.com. I knew I should've looked in the booklet, since I own this album. Thanks for the correction. B T C 03:46, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Leak
The album leaked yesterday. November 30.
 * Do you have proof, in the form of a linkable webpage? Kouban 05:29, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Also, is there really a reason to have that information in the article? Every album from a major label leaks some time before it is released, all that's doing is telling people when they can go and download it. Offski 07:09, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I think it can be argued that the information about the existence of a leak might qualify as encyclopedic, and I don't think that it promotes illegal downloading. But there isn't any proof provided that such a leak exists, let alone that this happened at the precise date that is suggested in this article. Thus, I think the sentence should be removed, unless its author can provide sufficient proof for his statement. --85.124.170.203 (talk) 16:10, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't see what's so notable about "It has leaked". Pretty much every album as highly-anticipated as this is leaked early these days, it just happens. Unless there was something notable about the leak itself (there was some controversy/publicity developed by it or something) then I don't think it belongs in the article. Offski (talk) 20:44, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with Offski that, at this point, the leak information is not notable. Not only that, but it needs more information to be of encyclopedic value : is the leak the final version of the album?  If not, what are the differences?  These are all information that nobody can pretend to know until the album hit the retail store.  At that point, the correct information about the leak can be added.  I agree that it should be removed, at least until the album is out.  On the same point, any analysis of the album should be held off, or kept to the talk page, in case there are significant differences between the leak and the actual retail album.Tzeentch73 (talk) 18:29, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

It's leaked, full lyrics can be found on various sites and I'm sure it'd be simple to find a torrent of the album. If it has leaked, somebody might as well try to work out the plot like on the other Ayreon album pages... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.136.164.245 (talk) 20:04, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I think such information should be saved for when the album has been released. Kouban (talk) 03:29, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Story section
I think either rewriting or leaving it out for now is the best bet, a direct ctrl c+v from the InsideOut page isn't very encyclopedic. Offski (talk) 05:02, 28 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't think leaving it out is really an option. Since the information exist and it is official and verifiable, there is no need or reason to remove it.  As for rewriting it, I'm not sure it's a good idea since rewriting it could easily mean adding information not included in the official story (if not at first, in subsequent edits).  I'm thus in favor keeping of keeping InsideOut's text as is, but including it in blockquote as per the Quote template format (and in fact, I should have done that initially).--Tzeentch73 (talk) 18:52, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Also, see Wikipedia's guideline on Spoilers--Tzeentch73 (talk) 19:13, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * After reading much on source citation within wikipedia, I decided to rewrite the quote, while still linking it to the source. --Tzeentch73 (talk) 18:52, 31 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Based on the InsideOut plot and the lyrics, I have divided the storyline by tracks, keeping the original InsideOut qoute, and I have added a link to DarkLyrics, where the full lyrics to every song can be found. Also, i have added each singer's role in the Human Section. Felipe.posada (talk) 21:26, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * This is all original research, and links to external lyrics sites aren't usually used. Add to this the fact that the album isn't even out yet and I don't think this should be here. There's obviously some work gone into this so I won't delete it straight away, but I disagree with it being here before it can be sourced. Offski (talk) 13:10, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with Offski here. This is pretty much original research.  Also, we can't pretend to know what part of the official story goes with what song without having fully heard the album, which isn't out yet. Also see my comment up there on rewriting the official story.  I think that, at least until the album's out, the article should stick to what's official and that's it. --Tzeentch73 (talk) 15:48, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I know that. however, i have already heard the album, as have thousands of people. the official description of the story is up online, as are the lyrics, and it is fairly easy, even without listening to the album, to understand the story of each song, based on the InsideOut summary and the lyrics.  Also, I mean, there is only a month to go, and I am sure lots of people have already figured out the entire thing, just as I did, and it makes no difference to put the summary now or in a month, since it is going to be pretty much the same thing.  Felipe.posada (talk) 03:50, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm very sure the lyrics haven't been officially released, those are simply people's interpretations of what they've heard in the leak and they're not 100% accurate. I know the story is up on the InsideOut site but a simple copypasta from there isn't very helpful, I would agree with inserting a link to the albums official page on InsideOut. Offski (talk) 21:50, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Once again, I agree with Offski. The problem I'm mostly having is with this per-track synopsis being created with what I will call here 'unofficial' lyrics.  Nobody really can say what the lyrics really are until the album is out.  What if they are completely different when it's out?  That's not likely to be the case, but to keep encyclopedic quality, we should refrain until there are official and verifiable sources.  Not only this, but this too close to Original Research, which isn't in keeping with Wikipedia's policy.  To reflect this, I added the NOR tag to the section.  Some people on wikipedia seems to argue that expedite deletion is preferable, but I'm too new to take such a step without peer approval.
 * Fine. Deleted  --Felipe.posada (talk) 21:32, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
 * However, have you noticed that none of the other ayreon albums has a reference for their "plot" or "story" section? Also, there is a section named "Concept" in the Ayreon article, and that does seem Original Research as well.--Felipe.posada (talk) 21:32, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I really hope we're going to get a more in-depth plot once the album's out. Look at Electric Castle and Human Equation... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.87.78.157 (talk) 18:27, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I do not believe that the songs Connect the Dots and Web of Lies merit inclusion in the plot rundown, as they have no connection to the rest of the album at all. Kouban (talk) 02:11, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * They are definitely connected to the rest of the album, not through the story and characters but through the theme of technological dependance. Also, Arjen's PM said that the four human songs (those two, The Truth Is In Here and E=mc2) have their own plot that runs through the four songs. Offski (talk) 18:00, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

The Shadow out of Time
With the presumed story of this album giving a better overview of the actual events throughout the fictional universe of Ayreon, does anyone get reminded alot by H.P. Lovecraft's classic The Shadow out of Time? Cyanid (talk) 12:06, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I see a few interesting parallels there, but Arjen has said that he doesn't read books. He gets all his inspiration from films and tv series and he doesn't base his stories on anything in particular anyway. I guess if it's mentioned anywhere sourcable then it could be mentioned in the article but otherwise it's baseless original research. Offski (talk) 15:31, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Characters
I removed the unsourced descriptions of the human characters. These can be covered in the story section but with the amount of text that was there they were just cluttering up the cast list. Offski (talk) 17:26, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

The Fifth Extinction bad renaming & Rumors
So I would like clear here something out. Many people in fan sites of Ayreon are discussing the issue that the Fifth extinction is the extinction of the earth and are renaming the track info as "the earth extinction" and blahblahblah. Well first of all, The Fifth Extinction is (WARNING: SPOILERS AHEAD) the extinction of the dinosaurs by the comet being hit on earth launched by the foreverians to give their Lives a sense of living (you can read the whole thing in a real Ayreon fan site), so this discards in all his sense that this extinction has something in common the earth extinction. The Sixth Extinction is more alike, there is the explication of the human kind extinction. So there you go.
 * Tambocho (talk)

Web of Lies
Can whoever keeps claiming that Simone sings "Dear oh well" please stop. It says "OL" in the album booklet. Offski (talk) 10:55, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

binary numbers
How '01011001' can be a binary number as all of them start with 1, not 0? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.30.182.238 (talk) 14:51, 22 September 2008 (UTC)


 * The title means Y in binary code. Go to this page and you won't be thinking that they all start with 1 anymore. B T C 22:18, 22 September 2008 (UTC)


 * That's not so much binary as it is a specific ASCII code. Although these are presented in binary, to say that binary = ASCII isn't quite true, as other encoding schemes will testify: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebcdic


 * Furthermore, I'm not quite sure about the quote below. Does '59' in hex (or '89' in decimal) have some special significance? I couldn't seem to find anything in the page to give it relevance. 60.242.79.80 (talk) 18:15, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
 * "'01011001' is the binary representation of the hexadecimal number 59 (i.e., 5 = '0101', 9 = '1001'), the decimal equivalent is the number 89,"


 * Okay, I uderstand. I will put up the ASCII version of this interpretation on the page. Also, I have never thought of the special significance of 01011001 meaning what it means. So sorry about about not supplying an explanation for that part of your inquiry. Backtable Speak to Me  about what I have done  19:07, 24 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I guess it's already on there. THanks for your interest. Backtable Speak to Me  about what I have done  19:08, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

You know, 01011001 is 59 in hexadecimal but the fact that 0101 and 1001 separately translate to 5 and 9 in hexadecimal is a mere coincidence. There's no need to reference that at all. We could just mention that 01011001 is 89 in decimal, and that's the ASCII code for Y. mike (talk) 01:27, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

The Truth is in Here - "Zero-One"
In the description for The Truth is in Here: In the verses, Mr. L alludes to previous Ayreon albums: The first verse describes the experiences of the character Ayreon in The Final Experiment, the second includes lines from Into the Electric Castle suggesting that Mr. L is the Hippie from that album, and the third verse appears to allude both to The Human Equation and prior songs on Zero-One. I assume the term "Zero-One" is a fan-abbreviation for "01011001"? I spent a while searching "Zero-One" on Wikipedia and couldn't really find anything Ayreon-related. Thus, assuming it's referrring to 01011001, I've changed it to "..and other songs on 01011001". (Personally, I also think that this paragraph is poorly worded, though I haven't heard any other albums by Ayreon, only 01011001.) undefined N  a  N  21:45, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It was a good idea to do that. B T C 21:58, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure if it counts as a fan abbreviation given that Arjen himself refers to it as "zero one" on the Ayreon forums and the making of videos. Kouban (talk) 00:14, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
 * If that's the case, the it should be noted somewhere that Arjen Lucassen refers to it as "zero one", along with a source to back that up. B T C 01:40, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think it's particularly relevant. To be honest, I just did that out of laziness. Kouban (talk) 00:16, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, that's understandable. B T C 00:19, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Reference to THE?
I'm not going to revert it again straight away, but I am 99% positive the the lyrics do not make reference to The Human Equation. The lines in question refer to Forever living inside his head and coming to him in dreams (Waking Dreams anybody?). The events in THE never actually ocurred in the Ayreon universe, they were just a simulation in the Dream Sequencer, while The Final Experiment and Into The Electric Castle actually happened. Unless someone comes up with evidence to the contrary, I'll remove that statement. Offski (talk) 14:43, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Sadly, the only reliable source for anything Ayreon-related seems to be inadmissable as a source, so I doubt you'll get one. Kouban (talk) 01:15, 26 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Then at least make some argument to include it, it simply makes no sense to me. The character singing in The Truth is in Here seems to be the same person who went to the Electric Castle, and the prophet fortold by Merlin, but there's no implication that he is Me from THE. In fact, THE never actually happened, it was just a simulation run in the Dream Sequencer. The lines in The Truth is in Here relate to Forever, and can be linked to other lyrics from earlier songs on 01: "They speak to me in dreams" is almost a direct quote from Jonas' "We come to you in waking dreams", and "They can see all I can see" refers to Anneke's "Through their eyes we will see" from The Fifth Extinction. I can see how you might think of THE when hearing those lyrics, but if you think about, there's very little chance that it is actually a reference to it. Offski (talk) 01:20, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Offski. It makes no sense to me the lyrics are referencing The Human Equation. I'm fairly sure the last verses refer to other 01 songs instead. mike (talk) 01:22, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Lead
"01011001 is the seventh studio album by Arjen Anthony Lucassen's long-running Ayreon project. "01011001" is the binary representation of 89, the ASCII code for the letter Y." seems simpler?
 * Rich Farmbrough, 19:08, 8 September 2009 (UTC).


 * Yeah, it's simpler sounding. I'm not against how it is currently, but if you want to change it to the simpler version, then that's cool. Backtable Speak to Me  about what I have done  22:59, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Source for the story synopsis?
Is there any official source for this story synopsis? There doesn't seem to be any in the references, and the songs themselves are not (in my opinion) so clear cut that a plot synopsis appropriate for an encyclopedia can be created, the plot of the album is inferred through the dialog between characters alone (unless I missed something when I listened to it) and I feel that there are a lot of points in this plot summary which are debatable because of this. I assume this is the case for all of Ayreon's albums (though I've only had the pleasure of listening to this one and snippets of others), so whilst the plot summaries have obviously had a lot of work put into them, I'm tempted to WP:BEBOLD and rip them all out if I can't find a source for them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.210.232.191 (talk) 15:17, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
 * First off, I am going to place a tag in the story section about what you pointed out. Thank you for bringing this to attention. Second off, thanks for giving a warning of how you may want to clear the section with the WP:BEBOLD as your reasoning. Backtable Speak to Me  about what I have done  19:03, 12 September 2009 (UTC)