Talk:11th Airborne Division

11th Airborne Motto
Regarding the motto "First in Manila, First in Tokyo": this motto is used by the 1st Cavalry Division, not the 11th Airborne. In terms of history, the 1st Cavalry Division was first to enter Manila during the liberation of the Philippines, and no 11th Airborne trooper would dispute this. However, the title of "First in Tokyo" is often subject to debate. For example, a favorite story among 11th Airborne veterans claims that when the 1st Cavalry Division arrived in Tokyo, they were greeted by members of the 11th Airborne Division's band, playing the song "The old gray mare ain't what she used to be."

See:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,813586,00.html?promoid=googlep

http://www.ww2-airborne.us/18corps/11abn/11_overview.html

Also see the book "The Angels: A History of the 11th Airborne Division" by E.M. Flanagan, Jr. (Presidio Press, 1989)

Rhurst1945 21:19, 23 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Sorry the actual timeliness show that 11th Airborne landed in Japan well before the 1st Cavalry. The landings in all the primary material show an 8 hour earlier landing by the 11th. Let's not repeat myths like those above with citations that are not citations. The time magazine article is simply an article about First Cav, relating its claims. The second citation actually asserts 11th Airborne was first into Tokyo. Flanagan book indicate 11th airborne was first when one looks at the primary material Flanagan uses.!72.75.33.54 (talk) 22:13, 25 July 2009 (UTC)


 * The 11th Airborne Angels were assigned to the 187th Infantry Regiment, I know that the regimental motto is "Ne Desit Vertis" or Let not Valor Fail. Does that make the divisions motto the same? They also referred themselves Hell's Angels does that count as a motto. See http://www.armystudyguide.com/content/Unit_history/regiment_history/187th-infantry-regiment-u.shtml and https://sites.google.com/site/seans11thairborne/Home Jrfras (talk) 11:35, 20 December 2013 (UTC) Jrfras

WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Tag & Assess 2008
Article reassessed and graded as start class. Referencing and appropriate inline citation guidelines not met. --dashiellx (talk) 17:32, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Safekeeping
I'm copy and pasting this information here for safekeeping whilst I begin a revamp of the article Skinny87 (talk) 19:31, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Landing
The 11th Airborne Division arrived in New Guinea, 25 May 1944, and continued training, leaving for the Philippines 11 November 1944. The division made an amphibious landing on Leyte, 18 November 1944, between Abuyog and Tarragona (now MacArthur), 40 miles south of Tacloban. Pushing inland, the division cleared the Ormoc-Burauen supply trail, an important Japanese combat lifeline. The 11th's general mission was to seize and secure within its zone all exits from the mountains into Leyte Valley and to secure the western exits from the mountains into the west coastal corridor to assist the attack of the 7th Division toward Ormoc.

The enemy
On 6 December 1944 the paratroopers of the 11th found themselves fighting Japanese parachutists who had landed near the San Pablo airstrip. The Japanese were wiped out in a 5-day engagement. In a continuous series of combat actions, Japanese resistance was reduced on Leyte by the end of December 1944. Heavy resistance was met at Rock Hill, which finally fell, 18 December; a sleeping enemy was caught off guard at Hacksaw Hill, 23 December, and suffered heavy losses. During January 1945 the Division rested and staged for a landing on Luzon. While other American troops were driving on Manila from the north, the 11th Airborne made an amphibious landing 60 miles south of Manila, 31 January 1945, at Nasugbu, and began to drive north.

Jumps
The first combat jump by an element of the division in the war, that of the 511th Parachute Infantry Regiment on Tagaytay Ridge, 3 February 1945, met no resistance. The 511th crossed the Parañaque River 5 February, and reached Manila, meeting fierce Japanese resistance. Nichols Field was taken, 12 February, and Fort McKinley was flanked, 12-16 February, and finally taken, 17 February. A combined air and sea assault liberated more than 2,000 Allied civilians interned at Los Baños, 23 February 1945. With Manila declared secure, the Division reduced a strong ring of enemy outposts between Lake Taal and Laguna de Bay, and occupied towns along Highway No. 1, cutting off the Bicol Peninsula. In April the 11th took part in clearing out remaining enemy resistance in Batangas province, and by 1 May, all resistance in southern Luzon had ended.

Final mission
The final operation of the Division was conducted on 23 June 1945, in conjunction with the advance of the 37th Division in northern Luzon. A Task Force was formed and jumped on Camalaniugan Airfield, south of Aparri. The force attacked and made contact with the 37th Infantry Division, 26 June 1945, between Alcala and the Paret River. In July 1945 the Division trained; in August it was transported by air to Honshū, Japan, via Okinawa, for occupation duty. The First Cavalry Division has claimed that they were the first U.S. Division in Japan for occupation however the 11th Airborne Division history indicates that they were in the country of Japan before the 1st Cavalry. Reportedly the 11th Airborne Division band was waiting in the port when the 1st Cavalry Division arrived in Japan and played "The Old Grey Mare Ain't What She Used to Be" as they disembarked.



World War II

 * Division Headquarters
 * 187th Glider Infantry Regiment
 * 188th Glider Infantry Regiment (converted to PIR on 20 July 1945)
 * 511th Parachute Infantry Regiment
 * 541st Parachute Infantry Regiment (disbanded to provide replacements for 187th, 188th, & 511th)
 * HHB Division Artillery
 * 457th Parachute Field Artillery Battalion (75mm)
 * 472nd Parachute Field Artillery Battalion (75mm) (assigned 20 July 1945)
 * 674th Glider Field Artillery Battalion (75mm) (converted to PFAB 20 July 1945)
 * 675th Glider Field Artillery Battalion (75mm)
 * 221st Airborne Medical Company
 * 127th Airborne Engineer Battalion
 * 152nd Airborne Antiaircraft Battalion
 * 11th Parachute Maintenance Company
 * Headquarters Special Troops
 * Headquarters Company, 11th Airborne Division
 * Military Police Platoon
 * 711th Airborne Ordnance Maintenance Company
 * 511th Airborne Signal Company
 * 408th Airborne Quartermaster Company

1950-1956

 * 188th Airborne Infantry Regiment
 * 503rd Airborne Infantry Regiment (assigned 2 March 1952 to replace 187th AIR sent to Korea)
 * 511th Airborne Infantry Regiment
 * 76th Tank Battalion
 * 710th Tank Battalion (no longer listed by 1955)
 * 127th Airborne Engineer Battalion
 * 89th Airborne Field Artillery Battalion
 * 457th Airborne Field Artillery Battalion
 * 544th Airborne Field Artillery Battalion
 * 675th Airborne Field Artillery Battalion
 * 88th Airborne Antiaircraft Artillery Battalion
 * 11th Airborne Medical Battalion
 * Special Troops
 * Headquarters Company
 * 11th Military Police Company
 * 11th Parachute Maintenance Company
 * 408th Quartermaster Company
 * 11th Replacement Company
 * Air Section
 * Pathfinder Platoon
 * 511th Signal Company

Station List as of 17 April 1957

 * Command & Control Battalion
 * HQ & HQ Logistics Company
 * 11th Admin Company
 * 11th Aviation Company
 * Troop C (Recon)(Abn), 17th Cavalry


 * 127th Engineer Combat Battalion
 * 511th Signal Battalion


 * 1st Airborne Battle Group, 187th Infantry
 * 2nd Airborne Battle Group, 502nd Infantry
 * 1st Airborne Battle Group, 503rd Infantry
 * 2nd Airborne Battle Group, 504th Infantry
 * 2nd Airborne Battle Group, 505th Infantry


 * 11th Airborne Division Artillery
 * HQ & HQ Battery
 * Batteries A, B & C, 320th Artillery (Abn)
 * Batteries D & E, 321st Artillery (Abn)
 * Battery C, 377th Artillery (Abn)


 * Support Group, 11th Abn Div
 * HQ & HQ Logistics Company
 * 11th QM Co (Parachute Support)
 * 711th Maintenance Battalion
 * 408th Supply & Transportation Co
 * 111th Medical Company


 * 76th Tank Battalion (90mm)


 * 11th CIC Detachment
 * 545th Ordnance Company (DS)
 * 886th Medical Company (Ambulance)
 * 551st Transportation Company

Most units were located in Augsburg. The 127th Engineer Combat Battalion, 1-503rd Infantry, 76th Tank Battalion, and 111th Medical Company were in Munich. Locations for last four in this list will be provided as the information becomes available.

Effective 1 July 1958 the 11th Airborne Division was inactivated and most of its components were reorganized and reflagged as units of the reactivated 24th Infantry Division. The 24th retained a partial Airborne capability with these units:


 * 1st ABG, 187th Inf
 * 1st ABG, 503rd Inf
 * 11th QM Parachute Supply & Maintenance Co

On 7 January 1959, 1-503rd was relieved from the 24th Infantry Division and assigned to the 82nd Airborne Division at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. It was followed on 8 February 1959 by 1-187th. The 11th QM Company was relieved from the 24th on 5 February 1959 and moved to the 8th Inf Div to the northwest in Mainz to support the latter's Airborne components being formed at that time by the arrival of 1-504th and 1-505th from the 82nd Airborne Division as well as other supporting arms formed up in-theater.

11th Air Assault Division (Test), 1963-65

 * HHC, 1st Brigade
 * 1st Battalion, 187th Infantry (activated 1 February 1964)
 * 3rd Battalion, 187th Infantry (activated 7 February 1963; relieved 1 February 1964 from assignment to the 11th Air Assault Division and assigned to the 101st Airborne Division; this was a transfer of colors and not a physical relocation of personnel and equipment)
 * 1st Battalion, 188th Infantry
 * 1st Battalion, 511th Infantry
 * Division Artillery
 * 2nd Battalion, 42nd Artillery
 * 6th Battalion, 81st Artillery
 * 3rd Battalion (Composite), 377th Artillery
 * Battery E (Aviation), 26th Artillery
 * Troop B, 3rd Squadron, 17th Cavalry
 * Co A, 127th Engineer Battalion
 * Co A (Command Operations), 511th Signal Battalion
 * Co A, 11th Medical Battalion
 * 711th Maintenance Battalion
 * 408th Supply & Service Company
 * 11th Military Police Company
 * 11th Aviation Group
 * 226th Aviation Battalion (Aerial Surveillance & Attack)
 * 227th Aviation Battalion (Assault Helicopter)
 * 228th Aviation Battalion (Assault Support Helicopter)
 * 229th Aviation Battalion (Assault Helicopter)
 * 11th Aviation Company (General Support)
 * 10th Air Transport Brigade
 * 611th Maintenance Battalion
 * 710th Transportation Battalion (AS&M)
 * 37th Transportation Battalion (Air)
 * 187th Aviation Company
 * 188th Aviation Company
 * 478th Aviation Company (Heavy Helicopter)
 * 72nd Air Traffic Control Company


 * Co A, 170th Transportation Battalion (Aircraft Support & Maintenance)
 * redesignated elements, 2nd Infantry Division (United States)
 * other formations and units

A question about wording
I've started to take a look at the article, and there's a line I wanted to ask about. In the Knollwood Manoeuvres (btw, shouldn't this page use AE per WP:ENGVAR?) section, there's the line
 * "as occurred to the 82nd Airborne Division, which participated in the first large-scale Allied airborne operation, Operation Husky and had also been activated at the same time as the 17th Airborne Division"

Was that a typo, and it's supposed to be 11th? If not, I would consider removing the comparison to the 17th, because it kind of comes out of nowhere. It'd be better to just give the date the 82nd was formed, to illustrate the short time between formation and deployment into combat. Parsecboy (talk) 13:11, 16 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Here's another question: in the same section, when it refers to "I Troop Carrier Command", is that another typo? It should be referring to IX Troop Carrier Command, shouldn't it? Parsecboy (talk) 13:16, 16 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I fixed the 17th ABD to 11th, that was indeed a typo. However, it isn't XI Troop Carrier Command, just I TCC. I'm not familiar with it, but it might have been a predecessor to IX. As for ENGVAR, I'll try and use American English when I edit it next. Is it a major problem? Skinny87 (talk) 13:46, 16 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Hmm, you appear to be correct about I TCC, from what the IX TCC article states: "The original cadre came from "Headquarters 1st Troop Carrier Command" established as a provisional headquarters". I haven't noticed too many issues with ENGVAR, in fact, all of the instances of maneuver/manoeuvre in that section were of the AE variety, only the section header was BE. Parsecboy (talk) 16:28, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Howze Board
You can't have a discussion about the 11th Airborne Division without any mention of the Howze Board - it was based on their recommendation that the 11th be set up as a test division for the airmobile concept.--Nobunaga24 (talk) 08:52, 28 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Huh, I never even heard of it in the secondary sources. Cheers for that. The article's going through an FAC at the moment, but I'll add it in the histry when I get a chance. Skinny87 (talk) 17:51, 28 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm working on expanding and improving the section on the Test division. It's got some issues right now. Intothatdarkness 14:20, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Late 1950s and early 1960
The existing text for this time period reads:

"The 187th began an intensive training regime, conducting several training exercises, before being temporarily deactivated on 19 June for budgetary reasons.

"The 187th was reactivated less than a year later on 1 March 1957 as two separate formations: 1st Airborne Battle Group, 187th Infantry; and 2nd Airborne Battle Group, 187th Infantry. These were transferred to Augsburg to join their former parent formation, where they were reintegrated into the 11th Airborne Division. However, the division was itself deactivated in Augsburg on 1 July 1958, and the 1st and 2nd Airborne Battle Groups were instead attached to the 24th Infantry Division."

This is not correct. The 187th ARCT was assigned to the newly-reactivated 101st Airborne Division on 1 July 1956 (the 508th ARCT was also assigned at this time to the 101st) and in the following year the regiment was broken up when the Army phased out infantry regiments (typically three per division, with three battalions in each) in favor of five battle groups per division, with five companies in each. This was the so-called Pentomic concept, and the lineage of Company B, 187th Infantry Regiment was perpetuated by HHC, 2nd Airborne Battle Group, 187th Infantry in the 101st. In Germany, the 11th Airborne Division was also reorganized into the Pentomic configuration, and the lineage of old Company A, 187th was perpetuated by HHC, 1st Airborne Battle Group, 187th Infantry. Additionally, 2-187th never moved to Germany to join 1-187th within the 11th Airborne Division. All of this is detailed here by the US Army Center of Military History, Fort McNair, Washington, DC:

1-187th http://www.history.army.mil/html/forcestruc/lineages/branches/inf/0187in001bn.htm 2-187th http://www.history.army.mil/html/forcestruc/lineages/branches/inf/0187in002bn.htm

Regarding the reactivation of the division as the 11th Air Assault Division (Test), the text also states:

"Its original combat units—the 187th Glider Infantry Regiment, the 188th Glider Infantry Regiment, and the 511th Parachute Infantry Regiment—were also reformed under the new division."

The terms "Glider" and "Parachute" were eliminated in favor of "Airborne" in the late 1940s when glider units were phased out and converted to parachute. The term "regiment" was not used since true regiments were no longer part of the force structure under the Pentomic concept. When the Army abandoned the Pentomic concept in the early 1960s in favor of brigades and battalions, "regiment" was still not used. Instead, a battalion would carry a designation such as "3d Battalion, 187th Infantry." There was no regimental headquarters, but instead a brigade headquarters above battalion level, and regimental numbers were only used for purposes of lineage and honors.

The infantry battalions in the 11th AAD(T) were 3-187th, 1-188th, and 1-511th. On 1 Feb 64, the colors of 3-187th were moved to the 101st Airborne Division and the unit was reflagged with the colors of 1-187th. See:

1-187th http://www.history.army.mil/html/forcestruc/lineages/branches/inf/0187in001bn.htm

3-187th http://www.history.army.mil/html/forcestruc/lineages/branches/inf/0187in003bn.htm

27 Jul 09 —Preceding unsigned comment added by VilePig (talk • contribs) 17:36, 27 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Gosh, that's quite complex. When I get time, I'll reword the article as best I can. Skinny87 (talk) 10:58, 28 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Before I try and incorporate this, I can't find it (but I'm wondering if there might be one buried somewhere with a tricky title), but is there a page on American military unit structure that might include (or perhaps benefit from) some of this info? Some of it seems like it should be there rather than specifically in this article Ranger Steve (talk) 21:57, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmmm, good question. I certainly don't know of one; maybe ask the US MILHIST taskforce? They're usually quite active. Skinny87 (talk) 09:10, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Jump pay
Might be worth adding that the jump pay paid to qualified paratroopers was the extra pay over that of an ordinary soldier. Actual numbers would be useful if you can find them; from what I remember it was a significant difference.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 18:33, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll try and see what I can find, although it might be a bit general and not specific to the division. Skinny87 (talk) 19:26, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Stephen Ambrose records a $50 dollar bonus for enlisted men, and officers a $100 bonus per month that "paratroopers recieved", so I doubt that was limited to just Easy Company! That's WWII era though, may change in peacetime.  I'm afraid I've been unexpectedly a little busy today Skinny, so apologies for not dealing with the above, but I will get onto it, unless someone else does first. Ranger Steve (talk) 17:36, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
 * No problem duder, I'm going to be busy next few days myself. Skinny87 (talk) 17:43, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

FWIW, when I was an enlisted member of 188th AIR, 11th Airborne Division in 1955-1957, my jump pay was $50.00 per month. To stay qualified for jump pay, one had to jump every three months. Each company's Operations NCO (that was me) was responsible for making sure that all the troopers in the company actually met the requirement. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.233.4.121 (talk) 15:27, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Things to Edit!
Hey I.P., this will be the area where we can discuss the prose and information changes that need to made to this article. Might I suggest you read WP: Reliable Sources and WP: Cite to start with, to get an idea of the various wikipedia guidelines? Skinny87 (talk) 12:06, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Right, I've added some of your changes. All Dakota references have been altered to Skytrain - didn't realize they weren't called Dakota's by Americans! Seconded has been removed and replaced with 'transferred', again a little cultural thing I didn't realize about. Added what the transport aircraft used during the Knollwood Maneuver were USAAF and added a link to what they were. Also moved a reference to cover an uncited sentence I wouldn't have spotted without you, so thanks for that.
 * Now, the post-war section until the division was inactivated needs a rework, per the sources you can see above, pointed out by another user. A friend of mine, User: Ranger Steve is kindly working on rewriting that section, as those sources confuse me frankly. So that's being done. Another thing I saw was your addition at the very last section that 1st Cavalry Division was in South Korea, and something about the 2nd Infantry Division, I think? If you have a WP: Reliable Source about that stuff, which I'm sure can be easily found if you know what you're looking for, then we can get that added. Skinny87 (talk) 12:20, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Here's what happened in 1965: The colors of the 1st Cavalry Division, based in Korea, were flown to Fort Benning, GA, and the colors of the 2d Infantry Division were flow from Fort Benning to Korea. This was just a transfer of unit colors and not personnel and equipment (P&E). At Fort Benning, the P&E of the 11th Air Assault Division (Test) and the 2d Infantry Division were merged to form the 1st Cavalry Division (Airmobile). As a test unit, the 11th was small and had often used units of the 2d during maneuvers. Within a few months, the "new" 1st Cav was on its way to Vietnam.

Regarding the reorganization of Army combat divisions from a regimental structure to the Pentomic concept, let me know if you need some explanatory documents. I have contacts at the US Army Center of Military History at Fort McNair in Washington, DC, who can provide just about anything. —Preceding unsigned comment added by VilePig (talk • contribs) 22:51, 16 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Happy new year Skinny and VilePig. I've uploaded my modified version of the "Post WWII" section.  I kept the detail fairly slim, as this article is primarily about the division, and the changes made to the brigades would probably be better in their own articles.  Would you mind having a check and seeing if it all makes sense?  Ranger Steve (talk) 11:45, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Looks pretty good, but there are still a few points to bring up. One paragraph reads: "As the American Army began to restructure its organisation (known as the Pentomic Concept), the battalions of the 187th were re-designated as Airborne Battle Groups." That's not really true. The lineage of old Co A, 187th was redesignated as Headquarters and Headquarters Company, 1st Airborne Battle Group, 187th Infantry; the lineage of Co B, 187th was redesignated as Headquarters and Headquarters Company, 2nd Airborne Battle Group, 187th Infantry. This was a matter of lineage and honors and did not mean that old Co A/187th was physically reorganized as the HHC of a battle group. As is common with almost any large US Army force reorganization, the colors went in one direction and the troops went in another. For example, the troops in old Co I, 187th were used to form Co A, 1st Airborne Battle Group, 327th Infantry.

To illustrate the transition of colors from regiments to battle groups to battalions within brigades:

Yes: Co A/187th==>HHC, 1st ABG, 187th Inf==>HHC, 1st Bn, 187th

No: HHC, 1st Bn/187th==>HHC, 1st ABG, 187th Inf==>HHC, 1st Bn, 187th

The current text reads: "In early 1957 the 1st Airborne Battle Group, 187th Infantry transferred to Augsburg to join its former parent formation, where it was reintegrated into the 11th Airborne Division.[76]" Not true. The 1st ABG, 187th Infantry was formed in Germany from existing personnel and equipment in the 11th's three airborne infantry regiments (188th, 503d and 511th), which were being broken up and reorganized as five ABGs. The lineage and honors of old Co A/187th (now HHC, 1st ABG, 187th Inf) moved from Fort Campbell to Germany but there was no transfer of troops.

Next: "The 2nd Airborne Battle Group, 187th Infantry remained with the 101st until 1964[77] while the 3rd Battalion was inactivated.[78]" The colors of old Co C/187th (reorganized and redesignated as HHC, 3d ABG, 187th Inf but not activated as such) were never active during the Pentomic era. They remained inactive until 1963, when HHC, 3d ABG, 187th was reorganized and redesignated (on paper - remember, this was just an administrative action) as HHC, 3d Battalion, 187th Infantry. Generally speaking, the lineages of the battalion headquarters companies from the pre-late 1950s regiments were disbanded and not continued. (The 75th Inf is a rare exception to the rule.) Instead, only the lettered companies of the regiments saw their lineages continued, but as HHCs of the newly-formed battle groups.

Further: "However, the 11th Division was itself inactivated in Augsburg on 1 July 1958, and the 1st Airborne Battle Group was instead moved to the 24th Infantry Division.[79]" When the 11th was reorganized and reflagged (not redesignated - that implies a continuation of the previous unit's colors and battle honors) as the 24th Inf Div, 1-187th and 1-503d were two Airborne battle groups kept on jump status while the other elements of the division were reorganized and reflagged as non-Airborne units. 1-187th was assigned to the 11th from 1 March 1957 to 1 July 1958, when it became part of the 24th. 1-187th left the 24th and was officially assigned to the 82d on 8 February 1959. (1-503d left the 24th on 7 January 1959 for the 82d.) Concurrent with the assignment of the two battle groups to the 82d, 1-504th and 1-505th rotated out and were assigned to the 8th Inf Div in Mainz.

Lastly: "Elements of its original combat units — the 187th Airborne Infantry, the 188th Airborne Infantry and the 511th Airborne Infantry — were also reformed under the new division.[80]" After the end of infantry regiments in the late 1950s, the term "Airborne" was dropped from the regimental designation. The 11th Air Assault Division, being a small test unit and not a fully flesh-out division, only had three infantry battalions:


 * 3d Battalion (Airborne), 187th Infantry (later assigned to the 101st and replaced by 1-187th)
 * 1st Battalion, 188th Infantry
 * 1st Battalion, 511th Infantry

Note that only 3-187th (later 1-187th) was on jump status while the other battalions were not, as this was an Air Assault test unit, not Airborne. When the assets of the 11th Air Assault Division (Test) and the 2d Infantry Division were merged in 1965 to form the 1st Cavalry Division (Airmobile), this same one-third Airborne ratio continued, with the division's 1st Brigade being established as an Airborne brigade, rapidly filled with new troops as the division planned to depart for Vietnam with several months. A little over a year later, jump status for the 1st Brigade was terminated since it was seen as unnecessary in the environment in which the division was operating. This is probably more than you really needed but now you have the full picture. —Preceding unsigned comment added by VilePig (talk • contribs) 21:14, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Inactivation of the 11th in Germany
RE this paragraph: "As the American Army began to restructure its organisation (known as the Pentomic Concept), the battalions of the 187th were re-designated as Airborne Battle Groups. In early 1957 the 1st Airborne Battle Group, 187th Infantry transferred to Augsburg to join its former parent formation, where it was reintegrated into the 11th Airborne Division.[78] The 2nd Airborne Battle Group, 187th Infantry remained with the 101st until 1964[79] while the 3rd Battalion was inactivated.[80] However, the 11th Division was itself inactivated in Augsburg on 1 July 1958, and the 1st Airborne Battle Group was instead moved to the 24th Infantry Division."

Battalions were not redesignated as battle groups. Under the regimental structure, the three regiments each had three battalions, for a total of nine. A Pentomic division had five battle groups. The assets of battalion and regimental HQ units were used to for battle group HQ, but there was no direct conversion of battalions to battle groups. Also keep in mind that, during this period of reflagging and reorganization, typically a unit's colors would go in one direction and the troops in another. When the 11th was reorganized as Pentomic, it included regimental designations that had previously been with the 82d and 101st Airborne divisions and were administratively transferred to the 11th.

In early 1957 physical elements of the old 187th ARCT were not transferred to the 11th Airborne Division. The assets of the 187th ARCT (as well as the 508th ARCT) were used to form the 101st Airborne Division, the colors of which were transferred from a basic training organization at Fort Jackson, SC, to Fort Campbell, KY, for reorganization as a combat division. When the 11th went Pentomic in Germany, only the colors of Co A, 187th (the lineage of which was reorganized as HHC, 1st ABG, 187th Inf) went to the 11th in Germany. The troops of the former 187th ARCT remained in the new 101st. The lineage of Co B, 187th remained in the 101st as HHC, 2d ABG, 187th Inf. The rest of the company lineages went inactive and the battalion HQ company lineages were disbanded. The lineage of Co C, 187th remained inactive until reactivated in 1963 as HHC, 3d Battalion (Abn), 187th Infantry, the only Airborne battalion in the 11th Air Assault Division (Test). The other two infantry battalions (1-188th and 1-511th) were non-Airborne units performing in an Air Assault role. 3-187th moved to the 101st the following year and was replaced in the 11th by 1-187th, and in the next year its colors were inactivated again when the assets of the 11th AAD(T) and the 2d Infantry Division were merged to form the 1st Cavalry Division (Airmobile).

Getting back to Germany in the late 1950s, the former lineage of Co A, 187th (reorganized and redesignated as HHC, 1-187th Inf) was indeed assigned to the 11th Abn Div from 1 March 1957 to 1 July 1958. On that date it was relieved from assignment to the 11th Airborne Division and assigned to the 24th Infantry Division. There was, however, no physical transfer of the unit. What took place was that the 11th was reflagged and reorganized as the 24th Infantry Division. Of the five airborne battle groups assigned to the 11th, only 1-187th and 1-503d remained on jump status. Almost all other divisional units were reflagged and reorganized as non-Airborne. About a year later these two remaining battle groups were physically transferred by troop ship to the 82d Abn Div at Fort Bragg, NC, and replaced in the 24th by non-Airborne battle groups, while 1-504th and 1-505th were transferred from the 82d to central West Germany for assignment to the 8th Infantry Division. Yes, it was a time of great turbulence and it can be confusing to follow, and indeed most in the Army today don't understand it or misinterpret it.VilePig (talk) 16:00, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

para vs glider training
How did the glider troops training compare to the paratroopers with the 11th? I know the 511th was waived the 1st of 4 weeks at Benning, the physical fitness phase A, because observers felt they were fit enough to go straight to phase B. I read in "The Angels" that glider troops described basic at Camp McCall as "vigorous" while airborne training was described is "rigorous"; the terms definitely implicate by degree. Yet I've also seen, including in this article, that rigorous training was the standard division wide. Anyone know? Thanks. Ledboots (talk) 22:06, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Hey there. I work on a lot of airborne-related article on en.wikipedia, so I might be able to help here. Could you give some more specifics on what you're looking for? Do you mean the purely physical workout the glider troops and paratroopers got, or a more wider view encompassing weapons training, tactics and so forth? Skinny87 (talk) 23:27, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I was referring to the physical fitness aspect. In other words, did the 187th or 188th have to run the 3 miles up, 3 miles down Mt Currahee? I believe James Gavin wanted to make sure ALL airborne division troops were well trained being they would insert and engage behind enemy lines. But because jump school at the time maintained a fitness requirement, and it doesn't seem evident that Laurinburg-Maxton did, that would lead one the believe that glider troops might be trained more like regular infantry, or at least somewhere in-between. I'm sure weapons training, tactics were about the same, correct? Ledboots (talk) 01:31, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

I recall reading long ago that, unlike an assignment to a parachute unit, an assignment to a glider unit did not require one to volunteer. A GI would be assigned to a glider unit in the same manner one would be assigned to a regular infantry or armored infantry unit. If I can find the book with this information, I'll post it here.

Also, during WW II, Jim Gavin was not in a position to dictate training for troops in all parachute, glider or air-landed units. He was a regimental commander and later the division commander in the 82d Abn Div, but he was not in charge of troop training back in the States. — Preceding unsigned comment added by VilePig (talk • contribs) 20:02, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Infobox
I do apologize for screwing up the infobox. I was gonna fix it after dinner, but my brother, (who is the wikia contributer) messed it up and I didn't know how to fix it.Please excuse me and my brother.--SonnyBobSampson (talk) 22:55, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

New Guinea Glider Training
What did replacement week-long glider training consist of? Mock-up? One flight? Two? Thanks. 2601:8D:503:9780:549A:EDDA:4953:AD17 (talk) 12:54, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

Merge 11th Airborne Division and 11th Infantry Division Articles
In almost all cases, calling a unit the #th Airborne is just a special way of speaking about a particular infantry division. For example, the 82nd and 101st Airborne are really the 82nd and 101st infantry divisions. Just as the 10th Mountain is really the 10th infantry division. Is the 11th Airborne different? Maybe it is? I am just not sure why there is both an 11th Infantry Division entry as well as a 11th Airborne Division page. - Atfyfe (talk) 09:28, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
 * The two divisions are completely separate, were created at different times and have completely different formation histories. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:34, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
 * , thanks for bringing this up, and I'd generally agree with you. But in this case (based upon the articles) there doesn't appear to be any overlap between the divisions. The 11th Infantry was activated during WWI and the Airborne first activated in WWII. I'd suggest closing this merger proposal. Best, Eddie891 Talk Work 12:17, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

My Dad was in the 11th Airborne Division in World War II. I feel it is more respectful to keep the two entries separated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1948.Berlin (talk • contribs) 13:59, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Yes, the 11th Airborne Division was different. Unlike the 82nd and the 101st, it was established from its very beginning as an airborne division. It was never a conventional infantry division. Furthermore, the 11th Infantry Division existed simultaneously with the 11th Airborne Division, if only as a phantom division on paper (to confuse the Germans). But they are not the same unit. None of the various histories of the 11th Airborne Division include the 11th Infantry Division as part of its lineage. Rhurst1945 (talk) 02:20, 7 September 2020 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Provisional organization graphic
I created a provisional graphic of the 11th Airborne's organization. I will not yet add it to the article as I want to see what happens with the 1st Brigade and the CAB. If anyone has information that will help to improve/correct the graphic, please leave a message on my talk page. noclador (talk) 23:18, 8 June 2022 (UTC)


 * The 1st Brigade gave up its Strikers and is now just an Infantry BCT with plans to turn it into an Air Assault Infantry BCT in the near future. In addition to watching the recorded live stream of a Q&A session with NCOs on the 11th's Facebook page, read the cited sources in the "Present day" section for more evidence of the reorganization. Also note that the DIVARTY will take time to create but does not exist yet. Also note that the division may not get a division support brigade due to its size; they could just get the 17th CSSB and call it good. I am waiting on published info on the USARAK website to see what the real structure of the division will be. --McChizzle (talk) 23:52, 8 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the information McChizzle. Should I change the icons of the 1st Brigade to infantry or air assault? For the other changes I will wait until more info on the USARAK website comes online. noclador (talk) 08:58, 9 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Yes, I would change the 1st Brigade to an Infantry BCT for that has already been announced. When that IBCT gets qualified to be an air assault IBCT is not known. Also, I would remove the DIVARTY for it does not exist yet and will take time to create. --McChizzle (talk) 10:07, 9 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Changed 1st BCT to IBCT. Added "(being raised)" to the DIVARTY as it will be activated for sure. I wonder if they will add units to the CAB... with an Air Assault ICBT they will need lots more helicopters. noclador (talk) 17:52, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 28 July 2022

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 17:49, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

11th Airborne Division (United States) → 11th Airborne Division – Only 11th Airborne Div. on Wikipedia. – Illegitimate Barrister (talk • contribs), 12:09, 28 July 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 06:05, 5 August 2022 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Comment depending on how you translate it (ie. if you use U.S. terminology instead of British terminology) we do have 11th Parachute Division (Germany), so no, this is not the only one on Wikipedia -- 64.229.88.43 (talk) 03:25, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Response the pageviews for the two articles for the last 6 months indicate that the American division consistently gets more views by several orders of magnitude, so it's appropriate to handle this concern with a hatnote redirect. Carguychris (talk) 14:12, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
 * So you are contending that this is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC ? -- 64.229.88.43 (talk) 03:12, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Support per WP:COMMONNAME. Carguychris (talk) 14:12, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment COMMONNAME does not apply, the article is currently sitting at "11th Airborne Division" and the target pagename is also "11th Airborne Division" so that doesn't change, thus COMMONNAME is inapplicable. The difference is that there is currently a disambiguator, which has nothing to do with the COMMONNAME, which is what the pagename is before adding disambiguation. -- 64.229.88.43 (talk) 03:10, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Support This article is far more important the one on the German division, which less than 100 words long and doesn't even show up on Google. The 11. Fallschirmjäger-Division itself only existed for a few months and didn't even see combat. Meeepmep (talk) 08:07, 11 August 2022 (UTC)