Talk:122 mm howitzer 2A18 (D-30)

Based on German design?
"It is loosely based on a German design of the Second World War."

I've seen this bit of information before, but is there any reliable source supporting this? And on which German artillery piece the D-30 is supposedly based on? The reason I'm interested is that it's relatively common to claim that the Soviets copied technology from the west, and these stories spread easily without any supporting evidence. And I was trained as a gun leader (in FDF) for this type and therefore I'm interested about the details. —Preceding unsigned comment added by BasilF (talk • contribs) 19:15, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

10.5 cm leichte Feldhaubitze 43. Both Krupp and Skoda produced designs. Both started with a 3 leg mounting, only Skoda cut metal and this had 4 legs. Bofors also produced a 4 leg design in the 1940s.

"It does not use powder charges that are loaded separately, but has cased charges which are loaded after the shell." Obviously it does use what our American friends call 'powder' charges because there is no other way of propeling the shell! Being a howitzer I assume it has a choice of charges (how many?) and I'd assume that these are bagged but they are inside the metal cartridge case that provides obturation (in guns that don't use a metal cart case the breech provides obturation). There may be a choice of cartridges, eg since post WW1 UK normally has a 'normal' cartridge with a choice of charges and a single charge 'super' cartridge. Of course given the Soviet fondnest for keeping it simple it may have just the one cart with a choice of charges. The sentence should probably read "It uses a separately loaded metal cartridge case containing up to ?? charges." Nfe (talk) 07:07, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Is there a source for this or is it just a guess? Even so it should read "the three legged mount is based on" and then give the specific German design. 216.58.122.145 (talk) 20:02, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Tag & Assess 2008
Article reassessed and graded as start class. Referencing and appropriate inline citation guidelines not met. --dashiellx (talk) 18:28, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Bosnia
122mm D-30 howitzers 	units 51  	   	Built in Travnik, Bosnia payed by US http://www.vojska.net/eng/armed-forces/bosnia-and-herzegovina/army-of-federation/military-aid/

Images
I substituted new images as cleanup after a deletionist sweep. Please add back the original images (ie. the old caption image and the ammo) if you are able - they were better. The image text is still in place, commented out. Corella (talk) 11:16, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Translation from the Italian article
I am going to translate/include the bulk of the Italian article into this one. For some reason (too modern?) this article is nowhere near as comprehensive as the other Soviet artillery articles. The Italian article is also better than the Russian(?) Since I have no Italian my starting point is: Google translate. Expect some roughness for a while. Corrections welcome! Corella (talk) 06:37, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Sperged out. Done. Corella (talk) 12:15, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Dead link
During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!


 * http://www.bdmilitary.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=143&Itemid=98
 * In 122 mm howitzer 2A18 (D-30) on 2011-05-23 02:31:19, 404 Not Found
 * In 122 mm howitzer 2A18 (D-30) on 2011-06-01 03:47:54, 404 Not Found

--JeffGBot (talk) 03:48, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Content
While the information about the gun is generally accurate and reliable (apart from missing points such as Yugoslav range enhancements without resorting to ER shells) and the number of propelling charges, some of the general comparisons with other artillery are somewhat underinformed from an artillery perspective, with subjective claims with little or no tactical merit. The other notable gun designed in the 1960s was the 105mm L118, a lighter shell, lighter carriage but greater range. Comparing a 1960s design to a 1930s 155mm is at best irrelevant.Nfe (talk) 11:18, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

"Accuracy improved, with mean error at about 10 km dropping from 35 m with the M-30 to just 21 m" This doesn't seem right, I suspect someone doesn't know the difference between accuracy and consistency. Accuracy is about the relationship between the mean point of impact and the aimpoint, and is subject to assorted variables including survey and orientation accuracy, calibration state and the quality of the data for non-standard conditions. Consistency is the data (Probable Error) given in western firing tables and I assume others as well, and defines the dispersion about the mean point of impact, this is not circular, the range dispersion being much greater than the lateral dispersion. It also is the distance either side in which 50% of rounds fall, 100% of rounds are 4 times the size either side. Nfe (talk) 07:38, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

-Somebody needs to Research the difference between a "Gun" and a "Howitzer". During the 1970s if I would have made that mistake as U.S. Army Field Artillery, Fort Sill, Oklahoma, they would have had me doing squat thrusts until they got tired.

During the Iran Iraq Wars, as a U.S. Army Special Forces Officer in Command of a U.S. Ally Iraqis Combat Brigade, I had one Battalion of these D-30 GUNS, not "Howitzers" as part of my Brigade. A U.S. Ally Iraqis Combat Brigade is larger than a U.S. Army Infantry Division. An Iraqis Artillery Battery was 8 to 10 (depending on the date) Field Artillery Batteries, each Battery had 24 Sections (24 Guns and Trucks), this (size of Units) was previous U.S.S.R. strategy and tactics. The U.S.S.R. Ally Iran was using the U.S.S.R. Invasion of Europe Strategy and Tactics of Massive Artillery Fires before entering a Grid Square with lots of Mechanized Infantry and Armor (Tanks) followed by Infantry, they also used D-30 Guns, as trained by U.S.S.R. Spetsnaz Advisors. We (the other Team Leaders in Command of Iraqis Combat Brigades) used Rapid Mobility Defenses to move into the Grid Squares that were previously receiving the Iranian Massive Field Artillery Fires. Our D-30s were then used in the Direct Fire Anti Tank Role (something I learned from previously been Field Artillery M107 Self Propelled 175mm "GUN"), as engaging the Iranian Armor before they could get within range to use their Main Guns, their range about 2000 Meters. Some of our D-30 Guns were used for Counter Battery Fires, because most were "laid" inside the Iranian Artillery's craters, with the "splash" giving us the direction (deflection) and approximate distance (elevation). Nakamuradavid (talk) 10:11, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

Numbers
Reverted deletion, while numbers aren't sourced they don't seem particularly improbable given that this system has been around for over 50 years. The deleters competance in this area seems slight based on review of contributions.

Raises an interesting wider issue applicable to many pages, are such numbers supposed to represent acquired quantities or current holdings? Acquired numbers could include double counting from transfers. There are various sources including Jane's.Nfe (talk) 23:18, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Editors have been changing numbers willy-nilly, so we can't trust the numbers. This is an encyclopædia, not a race to produce as much text as possible; content that can't be trusted shouldn't be presented to readers as though it were fact. If you want to add some of this information to the article, feel free to provide sources. bobrayner (talk) 10:28, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Orphaned references in 122 mm howitzer 2A18 (D-30)
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of 122 mm howitzer 2A18 (D-30)'s orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "armstrade.sipri.org": From List of equipment of the Defense Forces of Georgia:  From Modern equipment of the Azerbaijani Land Forces:  From Hezbollah armed strength:  From Myanmar Army:  From List of equipment of the Algerian People's National Army:  

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 08:19, 23 August 2020 (UTC)