Talk:12 cm/45 10th Year Type naval gun

12 cm 11th Year Type M - Naval Gun
I was reading up on the (WIKI page) Chidori-class torpedo boat, and under the: The Tomozuru Incident section, where a top-heavy Chidori-class TB capsized, they mention (Sub-section: "Consequences") that the Chidori-class was completely rebuilt with the heavy 12.7 cm/50 Type 3 naval guns being replaced by "...hand-worked 12 cm 11th Year Type M guns,...".

Now the reference in the text to the "...hand-worked 12 cm 11th Year Type M guns,..." is not a link, HOWEVER, there is a link in the general characteristics "box" where it has a cryptic reference titled "4.7in (120mm)/45" which links to THIS page.

This leads me to GUESS that the "...hand-worked 12 cm 11th Year Type M guns,..." is a VARIENT of the 12cm/45 10th Year Type naval gun described here.

Therefore, if someone has information on this: "...hand-worked 12 cm 11th Year Type M guns,...", and it actually is a VARIENT of the weapon described here, it would be worth including. Basically I am suggesting that a section titled "Varients" should be added to this WIKI page and have a paragraph, listing the weapon with a description, perhaps also with a link back to the "Chidori-class torpedo boats" and a mention of "The Tomozuru incident".

I found a link to this weapon at Military Wiki with a bit more description. Looks like the revised weapon was also mounted on Imperial Japanese submarines.

In addition, in the WIKI article about the base gun, the: Type 3 120 mm 45 caliber naval gun, the second paragraph under "Design and development" says the following:

"A re-design in 1922 called the 12 cm/45 11th Year Type (Model 1922) with a shorter gun barrel and a horizontal sliding breech-block was used on submarines and torpedo boats. The 12 cm/45 was manually loaded and fired a 20.3 kilograms (45 lb) High-explosive, a illumination shell or after 1943 an anti-submarine shell."

Apparently there is some confusion over the naming of this weapon, since the original Type 3 had a length of 50 calibers, the remake Type 10 went to 45 calibers, then the final adjustment, the Type 11 used the same barrel (120mm/45) and length, but changed the type of breech block. As I have been educating myself on this it appears that the Japanese military kept the same designation as long as the breech block used the same mechanism. (I am sure that their naming criteria had more to it than that, but that is the key element that has come forward thus far!) Thus the Type 3 and Type 10 might be listed as the same weapon, i.e. simply a Type 3. Whereas the Type 11 would be a different weapon?

I would put in more information here myself, however, I know nothing about the "...hand-worked 12 cm 11th Year Type M guns,...", so I would be scribbling in the dark!

Thanks,

James 96.30.108.45 (talk) 15:12, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.30.108.45 (talk) 14:43, 12 November 2017 (UTC)