Talk:13 Sentinels: Aegis Rim

question
Is it right to include an upcoming release in an encyclopaedia? Surely Encyclopaedias should concentrate on past knowledge, not future knowledge? Kerouac&#39;s socks (talk) 11:18, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

Discussions: Getting the plot a sensible size
I know this is a difficult task, but the plot summary of the game as it currently stands is extremely bloated. The game is difficult to summarise concisely because of how its structured, but if this article's going to get to GA status in the future, the summary needs to be pared down to something that's understandable and accurate without looking like it does right now (it's about a quarter of the article's total length, which for a plot synopsis is way too much). Suggestions and sensible action is welcomed. --ProtoDrake (talk) 16:19, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I took a look at the plot section and the only thing I can think of is to remove the part that comes after the intertwining arc line completely (i.e. What occurs in the arcs of each character). Roberth Martinez (talk) 01:59, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Gatekeeping articles for "purity" ?
See Why_is_Wikipedia_losing_contributors_-_Thinking_about_remedies and Content_removal. I just spent an hour clarifying the core plot and fixing up common misconceptions while trying not to remove previous user content, unless it was factually incorrect, and using simple language without arbitrary jargon or unclarified terminology, only to discover that all my changes in their entirety were immediately reverted back by User:ProtoDrake into wrong info due to, I can only assume, some misguided attempt at "brevity". Then he made miniscule change in the middle of that content that blocked automatic reversion. Same goes for this revert of someone's excellent per-character plot summary. This story is the modern equivalent to Kubrick's 2001: A Space Odyssey but 10 times longer (30 hours of people talking non-stop + in-game article reading, and that's after about 50% of the story got cut due to budget constrains), with more science than fiction and zero fantasy or surrealism. Putting this in few paragraphs there were is already sign of its writing's achievement and how it allows so much complex real-life concepts fall into place so concisely and easily alongside full terminology description in linked related articles. Although, it takes players hours, sometimes tens of hours, to fully analyse the story and understand chronology for which they usually do by replaying the whole thing in chronological order which fully unlocked post-game Event Archive allows. But a lot is still left implied and not explicitly defined in game due to its reliance on 100 years of real-life transhumanism and the history of sci-fi genre as a whole. This is where concise BUT fully FACTUAL article is beneficial. Absence is not brevity. What is this ? Are articles now supposed to be as empty and as wrong as possible ? Is some letter-counting bureaucracy using inconvenience tactics are more important than usefulness of the actual content ? Didn't know that it's what they meant by Be_bold. I was planning on proof-reading and fixing more of incorrect statements about order, purpose, causes and effects of key plot events and filling blanks in face-value interpretations of scenes by post-game & real-life info, which seems to be still a lot, but now it's pointless to attempt if they are going to be blindly removed too. DFX (talk) 16:31, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
 * If you've not read WP:PLOTSUM, I'd suggest having a look through it. Likewise on other articles where you have been adding information about this video game, please consider the amount of information you are adding relevent to the nature of the article. You can always provide an external link to a more detailed site or other wiki if relevent. Sciencefish (talk) 19:01, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
 * You mean like the part: "The description should be thorough enough for the reader to get a sense of what happens and to fully understand the impact of the work and the context of the commentary about it." ?
 * The part about working of Project Ark, what Facility ("The Facility is Facility of the current colony, where story takes place, which is rebuilt every 5000 years in the same place, a colony consist of many different facilities/buildings but "Facility" specifically refers to pod+simulation building) is and its purpose is literally THE purpose of the whole story which is explicitly explained in Tamao 2188 ending scene. Not just for in-game events for characters but "the moral of the story" to the audience: the most important takeaway for both characters and audience IS the importance of cultural heritage, the memes that built civilization like genes built biosphere. This is THE crux of the story and it's unfathomable that people writing the summary would miss the point of the explicit scene and, worse, remove its description altogether from the plot summary.
 * There is no point in attempting to improve it if the most important aspects are going to be cut down "because the page is too long" or "I personally don't care about the subject" and instead is going to get filled with random out of context pseudo-factoids that are also factually wrong, often being the exact opposite of what happens in the story.
 * And, as I've told, this isn't a 1,5-hour movie, it's 30-hour novel about 13 protagonists and many more supporting characters with multi-layered meta-story concerning both multitude of in-game narratives and out-of-4rth-wall real-life commentary in addition being 100% based on real-life concepts with no fantasy involved. And that point is completely absent from this article. It doesn't not relate why people, who know the subject, think and feel about it what they do to those who don't. Not any more than "some reviews claim that writing is kind of nice and some character's personal stories are relatable but whatever, gotta keep articles short because that's what they are for, not to relate some kind of point across about what it is and what makes it so".
 * It's kind of ironic that the story primarily about preserving cultural heritage in a giant super-library and giving new life-forms understanding of importance of stories is getting none of it itself here. For some reason, old Wikipedia praetors are adamant about completely cutting useful information into nothing and guarding articles against additions. I would even understand reformulating it but cutting down under pretences is just personally offensive and anti-encyclopedic.
 * As for "other articles" where you were gatekeeping me, you've asked for "citations" and I've provided you with plenty, - the ending with explicit definition for key plot-points and "the moral of the story" + its short analysis with expanded in-game encyclopedia.- 8 hours of additional post-game analysis with citations of the story's writer.["I think you must buy this game! The reason for that is—in order to keep the existence of this Japanese national treasure of a company known as Vanillaware, they must sell as many copies possible. I don’t care whether games of other companies sell, and I really wouldn’t care at all if Atlus were to go under! However, Vanillaware games are the one thing we can’t lose in Japan, so let’s all buy 13 Sentinels: Aegis Rim!" - Yoko Taro, the author of post-apocalyptic NieR: Automata, at Siliconera of Enthusiast Gaming.]["13 Sentinels has the makings of a true cult classic, and earns its respect as a shining beacon of speculative fiction. The game has a lot to say about topics as wide as ethics in genetics to honoring the people who came before us, and handles it all with a steady, precise hand. Most importantly, 13 Sentinels completely reshapes how a story can be conveyed through gaming. It’s an incredible achievement, and one we’ll remember for years to come." - Austin Jones at Collider_(website).]["While it’s true that the work of Kamitani-san is largely inspired by other existing classics, the game is designed so that people who aren’t familiar with the original sources can still connect certain dots and speculate that a specific plot point might be inspired by a specific influence. I would actually encourage those who’ve played the game to speculate and debate amongst themselves." - producer Akiyasu Yamamoto of Atlus at Fanbyte.], you may want to actually read them (if anyone is actually interested in providing useful information to public, these should have all necessary info laid out to be reiterated actually concisely instead of not at all). But it seems that other user already deleted them and accused me of misconducts in violation of Wiki's own contribution guidelines of WP:BOLD and WP:EDITWAR. And if I would find or write this information on another site, let alone a wiki-site, then why I, or anyone in my place, waste time and mood on this here ? DFX (talk) 15:13, 15 February 2021 (UTC)


 * The plot additions are not appropriate. I'd recommend the writer review how Wikipedia writes/handles plot summaries rather than making wild accusations or falling back on the "this is why Wikipedia is losing editors" appeal to emotion. Sergecross73   msg me  15:49, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
 * So plot description is "not appropriate" in the Plot section ? Great ! Apparently, "Wikipedia handles everything" by not handling anything. My "wild accusation" are word for word realization of the situation described in that article. I think I've provided enough facts on the matter to make a factual judgement to those who want and not "appeal to emotion" or whatever else justification you like to make up for this behaviour and attitude. Anyway, you're free to swim in your own reductionist cabbalistic nonsense undisturbed because I'm done and out of here. DFX (talk) 16:00, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

Edit warring Greener Meaner Green Goblin and NarkySawtooth
Both of you have done 3 reverts under 24 hours, and the next person, no matter how "right" he is, would be blocked according to WP:3RR rules. Please do not do any reverts, and discuss the changes you wanted here. I do not understand the gist of the trouble, or about this topic, but I will do the best I can to mediate both of you. SunDawn talk  02:44, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

I already reported user NarkySawtooth and their behavior and asked for them to be suspended, since I tried to reason with them in talk page(s), but they reverted my edits with other weak and debunkable excuses and without even giving me any response first in said talk page(s). I have all the evidence I need. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Greener Meaner Green Goblin (talk • contribs) 02:52, 4 May 2022 (UTC)


 * There's just so much wrong with what you're adding. For example, the statement about a character being changed to non-binary is just completely false.
 * And I'm not even the only person removing it. When I started removing the section you've put on multiple pages, each one already had you undoing someone else's removal. Narky Sawtooth (talk) 03:40, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

It was removed by an unknown user without username, then it was reposted by an administrator, Discospinster, and then it was always you. And no, the statement is not "completely false", is true, and you know it and yet you continue to lie (all it takes is to notice and compare the differences, and I even posted sources from 3 or 4 different sites about it). Now what I want is to repost at least this considerably shortened text as follows: "As with other Japanese videogames released in the last years, the English localization of the game, and so extended to the rest of the West (North America and Europe), has been criticized because dialogues in the game would have turned one of the characters from a crossdresser to non-binary." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Greener Meaner Green Goblin (talk • contribs) 21:31, 4 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Do you have sources for this? If has no objection to this statement and it is well sourced, it should be included on the article.  SunDawn  talk  04:13, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
 * It's a factually untrue sentence. The character was not changed to non-binary in the localization, nor is it even mentioned. The sources cited show a line of dialogue about the character's attraction to men, which is in the original Japanese. Narky Sawtooth (talk) 04:31, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
 * So, it turns out it's a programming joke. Of course, it's still not saying the character is non-binary. It would be ridiculous to include a section about people on Twitter who misread a line in a screenshot from a game they seem to have never played - the character is explicitly referred to as a man throughout the game, meaning the localization did not change their gender. Also, as I pointed out on another talk page, the company behind the game fully consented to this translation, including the signing of contracts and a hefty sum of cash. Without the creators objecting to the changes, the only way it would be noteworthy is if a change was made to avoid the game being pulled, like in Russian and Chinese showings of Disney movies, for example. As the source is unreliable and no noteworthy controversy occurred (it is not noteworthy enough to have any responses outside of social media), this is a pet interest with no actual reason to be included in the article. Narky Sawtooth (talk) 20:39, 5 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Checkuser note: blocked as a sock.--  Jezebel's Ponyo bons mots 22:19, 13 May 2022 (UTC)