Talk:1890 Kansas Jayhawks football team

Proposed merge
It has been proposed that 1890 Kansas vs. Baker football game be merged in this article.


 * Oppose seriously a bad idea. The first college football game played in the state between Kansas and Baker, and merging it just to this page?  The original article should be beefed up, not merged.--Paul McDonald (talk) 01:43, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Are you suggesting every game which was the first played in the state meets GNG for its own article on that alone, or that Kansas is particularly notable? Today, Kansas might be the weakest D1 program, and that page seems a serious outlier for which games are covered on wiki. I was surprised anyone opposed this. Cake (talk) 13:43, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I have expressed no opinion at this time on every game for every other state. Just this one, which is our topic of discussion. While I don't argue that the Kansas Jayhawks are struggling performance-wise in 2015, this article is about what was happening in 1890 when the world was very different.--Paul McDonald (talk) 14:58, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
 * So is Kansas's historical contribution to the game particularly notable? I mean to ask honestly "why this game?" Cake (talk) 12:58, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, this game is important because it was the first played in the state. Kansas contribution to college football is significant in itself, such as the 1904 World's Fair game between Haskell and Carlisle, the 1905 Cooper vs. Fairmount football game was a successful implementation of night football, the 1905 Washburn vs. Fairmount football game tested valuable experimental rules that helped lead to the formation of the NCAA, the 1939 Nebraska vs. Kansas State football game brought television broadcast football outside of a large city, and multiple other events listed at Timeline of college football in Kansas.  This game started it all.  There is nothing wrong with including this article--it is sourced from reliable sources and passes WP:GNG.  Add to this that no reason to merge has been provided and we're left with one conclusion:  keep the article.  Sure, it's a stub for now, but there is no deadline.--Paul McDonald (talk) 15:39, 16 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Merge - The first football game played in any state is not inherently notable. What makes a subject event notable for purposes of a stand-alone Wikipedia article is the existences of significant coverage of the event in multiple, independent, reliable sources as required by the general notability guidelines per WP:GNG.  The specific notability guideline for events, WP:EVENT, offers this further guidance:


 * "Events are probably notable if they have enduring historical significance and meet the general notability guideline, or if they have a significant lasting effect.
 * "Events are also very likely to be notable if they have widespread (national or international) impact and were very widely covered in diverse sources, especially if also re-analyzed afterwards (as described below).
 * "Events having lesser coverage or more limited scope may or may not be notable; the descriptions below provide guidance to assess the event.
 * "Routine kinds of news events (including most crimes, accidents, deaths, celebrity or political news, "shock" news, stories lacking lasting value such as "water cooler stories," and viral phenomena) – whether or not tragic or widely reported at the time – are usually not notable unless something further gives them additional enduring significance.


 * "In evaluating an event, editors should evaluate various aspects of the event and the coverage: the impact, depth, duration, geographical scope, diversity and reliability of the coverage, as well whether the coverage is routine."

Okay. So let's have a meaningful discussion on the merits of the article and guidelines, shall we? Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 15:38, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Merge per WP:GNG. Unrelated, a new List of first football games by state article might be of some interest and utility, but with obvious overlap with the existing History of American football.  UW Dawgs (talk) 16:08, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks to MisterCake, we already have one for college football, List of the first college football game in each US state, but I am sure he would welcome your help in improving it. I'm guessing it would be difficult to document the "first football game" (regardless of what level) played in each state because of the lack of coverage of high school and other local amateur events, and especially because of the rapidly evolving nature of "football" after 1870.  Before the last couple of decades of the 19th century, it is difficult to distinguish what became American "football" from rugby and several other variants.  Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:27, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks, and well-done as always, Cake! UW Dawgs (talk) 17:00, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Redirect to List of the first college football game in each US state. Content callout is already present in the 1890 Kansas article and there is no equivalent Baker (football) article, so redirect is sufficient. 00:47, 27 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Question so if it is merged, what is it merged to? (1) List of the first college football game in each US state, (2) 1890 Kansas Jayhawks football team. (3) Baker Wildcats, or all three?  It makes no sense to me to merge one article into three others.--Paul McDonald (talk) 18:13, 26 October 2015 (UTC)