Talk:1926 FA Cup final/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: Mykleavens (talk) 18:26, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

I intend to review this article. --Mykleavens (talk) 18:26, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Initial comments

 * 1. In the second sentence of the lead, the word "cup" appears four times. I would reduce "it was the 55th Cup final" to "it was the 55th final".
 * Done.


 * 2. In the second paragraph of the lead, "Bolton in upper-mid-table and Manchester City near the bottom" needs more precise detail: please add the respective league positions and provide brief commentaries (not in the lead) about each team's form through the season.
 * I've added a paragraph about league form, but as it is based on statistical information it sails close to the synthesis side of things. I'm not sure about precise league positions. The table at the time of the final is a bit of a distortion as it is affected by games in hand, and to use final positions is chronologically messy.


 * 3. Route to the Final. Needs sub-headings per team.
 * Done.


 * 4. Typos and syntax. Please copyedit throughout to check spelling, grammar and syntax.  For example, "unexpectly" in Route to the Final.
 * Spellchecked, the perils of reading my own writing may mean I'm missing the obvious on the other aspects, please point any out.


 * 5. I would like to see more citations from books including at least one book about Bolton Wanderers. There seems too much reliance upon the Manchester Guardian although WP:RS says: "News reports may be acceptable depending on the context" and: "Whether a specific news story is reliable for a specific fact or statement in a Wikipedia article will be assessed on a case by case basis".
 * I wish it were that easy. This final is probably the most overlooked involving either club, perhaps due to the high profiles of the 1923 White Horse final and Bert Trautmann in 1956. Only the most thorough books give anything more than a very brief summary. From a Manchester City point of view, I own most of the books published about the club. Other than the inestimably valuable work of Gary James, there's little out there about this period. For example, Eric Thornton's 1969 history of the club gives the match little more than a sentence. There aren't that many books about Bolton around. There are two (both by the same author) that could have potential, but to have a look at either I'd have to make a trip to Bolton. There's also a book that contains reprints of Bolton Evening News reports from important moments in the club's history, but I suppose that's technically a newspaper source.


 * Newspaper-wise, yes, I've been using the Guardian a lot, as I've been limited to certain databases (Grauniad, Observer, Times and Scotsman). If I were to take this toward FAC in future, I'd be looking to round things out with more newspapers. Unfortunately, Manchester Central Library is closed for refurbishment until 2013, so I won't be hitting the microfilm any time soon. Oldelpaso (talk) 18:08, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

This article is quite good and is well focused. I'll continue to review in more detail and work towards completing the GA criteria soon. --Mykleavens (talk) 18:49, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Further review following copyedit
Sorry about the delay in taking this further but I've been on holiday. Thanks for the comments above and, though I note what you say about the league positions, I think it does add very useful information about the quality of the teams to be more precise, although I would not complicate it by going into matches in hand, etc. Instead, I've said where they finished the season. It makes clear that City were the outsiders.

I appreciate your difficulties with sources about 1920s sport and I think you've dome extremely well with what you have found, though you are probably right that much more detail will be needed for a feature review. My request for a Bolton source was an ideal only; it's not a necessity at this stage.

The copyedit is finished and my main advice here is to watch the combination of a comma with "and" which is generally unnecessary and looks untidy when the "and" is introducing the final component of a list. Another point is the frequency of repeated links as each player only needs one. Re the two league matches between the teams, I added the venues, though that is a minor point only.

There are three things left before I can wrap this up:


 * 1. I'd like a citation for the information about the Corinthians per the tag I've added.
 * 2. Would it be possible to create a stub at least about Harry Greenhalgh as he is the only player with a redlink?
 * 3. I realise the difficulties posed by image copyrights but is there any chance of including just one or two players?

If you can address these last three points, I will move this to GA. Referring to the criteria, it meets the well-written condition after all the copyediting and it doesn't breach any manual of style requirements that I can see. It is very well sourced, as I've said earlier, and is certainly factually correct. I like the coverage in which the match itself is the essential section but you've provided the needed background and also a useful aftermath. Although you are evidently a City fan, you have presented a completely neutral point of view. The article is certainly stable. I like the table containing the match statistics but unfortunately there is only the one image (of old Wembley) and it would be great if a couple more could be found. --Mykleavens (talk) 14:16, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I've fixed the Corinthians thing, and had a look around for images we could use, but not had any luck yet; will keep on looking. – Cliftonian the orangey bit 21:15, 29 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I've added a couple of images of grounds used in the earlier rounds. Both are on Commons and over 100 years old, so should be OK. The only way I'd be able to get a player image is by claiming the photographer is unknown and tagging it pd-old-70. I'd be very dubious about doing that as there would be no guarantee that the image would actually be out of copyright. As for Harry Greenhalgh, I've been unable to determine so much as his date of birth, so don't even have enough material for a tiny sub-stub. Oldelpaso (talk) 12:49, 30 May 2011 (UTC)


 * The main thing was the Corinthians source and so this has now achieved GA. No doubt data about the player will eventually surface and the photos you've used are fine as relevant venues. I've updated the talk page template.  Very well done.  --Mykleavens (talk) 13:21, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I have now created a stub on Greenhalgh based on the limited info in the Michael Joyce book. Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 16:39, 30 May 2011 (UTC)