Talk:1976 Tampa Bay Buccaneers season/GA1

GA Review
The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.''

Reviewer: Wizardman  14:04, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

The article is pretty good, but I did notice a lot of issues:
 * The lead definitely needs expansion. Should be two good paragraphs given the amount of prose.
 * In the McKay quotes section, all the quotes have to be cited.
 * All material here, including quotes, is cited. There may be intervening material before the citation appears, but all of it will come from the same citation. Thus, if you see three quotes here, every quote until the next citation comes from the same source. The same goes for quotes appearing later in the article.


 * I'd combine the quotes and coaching comments into a section on coach McKay.
 * He's got his own page, but I'll see how I can do this without duplicating that.


 * "Under the pressure of a long losing streak, Coach McKay became known for issuing notable, often hilarious, statements." Feels POV.
 * Since it was their first season, a note of the players they got in the expansion draft (just some notable ones, no need to list every single one since then it'd duplicate the roster) in the summary section would be helpful.
 * That's a good idea, I'll run that down a little bit. Obviously, they didn't get very many notable players; partly because of the way the draft was run, and partly because of McKay's conscious decision to lose with youth. But Spurrier was pretty notable, and a couple of the others developed into stars.
 * I put together a little list of some of the more notable names, but I don't have any citations with it. How much detail should this section have? And what needs to be provided as references?


 * "As an expansion team, the Buccaneers were given extra picks in the 2nd-5th rounds." I'm confused. In the table above this you show them, yet further on you mention that they traded all four of them to get assorted players. Was this after they chose the players, and which pick number goes to each trade?
 * My mistake, they actually got two extra picks each round. It's corrected.


 * "The team started out with solid defensive play, but they began to wear out as the Buccaneers' offensive ineptitude meant that the defense spent a lot of time on the field." cite needed (namely for the last part)
 * Rick Jennings only spent two days with the Bucs; that would make a nice addition in the season article (further shows futility I guess)
 * I thought I had something about that; I don't know what happened. IIRC, he actually returned the next season for a similar length of time. I'll work that back in.
 * Found the article referencing that; it was one that I already had cited for the uniform number fiasco. Since you're clearly a Rick Jennings fan, that reminded me of another thing I'd forgotten to add; which was that when the Raiders got Manfred Moore from the Bucs late in the season, it was as an injury replacement for Jennings. And, yes, Jennings was the 45th player on the Bucs' 45-man roster at the start of 1977, although he doesn't seem to have played in a game for them.


 * "Chargers players and coaches praised the Buccaneers' defense, who held them to 9 points until the final three minutes of the game, saying that they played the equivalent of five quarters." Cite needed.
 * See above


 * "We're at rock bottom now...but if we start pointing a finger, we'll go 0-14" All quotes need citations.
 * See above


 * I believe in the Colts game, McGriff completed a pass totaling more yards than either of the two QBs had on the day; might be a nice addition.
 * I'll recheck the sources, but I don't recall having seen anything about that.
 * I found where he led the Bucs in passing and added that (again, an already-cited article), but Bert Jones threw at least one longer pass than he did in this game.


 * Defensive tackle Pat Toomay complained that "the officials made us look like a bunch of idiots". All quotes need cites.
 * See above


 * "The Buccaneers were mistake-prone and ineffective throughout the first three quarters." Specifics or citation needed.
 * "He later referred to Ralston as a "horse's ass" and said, "I don't like any part of him. His day is coming". quotes need cites.
 * See above


 * Refs #35 and #39 (buccaneers.com) aren't working, need replacement.
 * I assume that these are the links that have been renumbered as #33 and #35. Buccaneers.com has been restructured since the article was written, these are now correct.


 * The other two awards/records need citations.
 * See above: the last three entries are all covered by citation #83.

I'll put the article on hold, and give you a week to fix all this. Wizardman 02:57, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Note that I will be holding to this; if no progress occurs by the end of Dec. 3rd I'll fail it. Wizardman  17:29, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * No progress, so unfortunately the article fails this GAN. Wizardman  03:48, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Missed deadline
I didn't see where this article was getting reviewed, so I missed the chance to address the concerns of the reviewer. I'll be renominating the article; in the meantime, I've started addressing the issues that were raised and have responded to some of them above. GuySperanza (talk) 20:32, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Progress
Here's where I stand on these suggestions as of 1-12-10:


 * ''The lead definitely needs expansion. Should be two good paragraphs given the amount of prose.
 * I'd combine the quotes and coaching comments into a section on coach McKay.
 * Expanding the lead would effectively give three season overview sections, so I'm going to roll the "Season Highlights" section into the lead once I finish expanding the section on coach McKay.


 * ''In the McKay quotes section, all the quotes have to be cited.
 * ''"Chargers players and coaches praised the Buccaneers' defense, who held them to 9 points until the final three minutes of the game, saying that they played the equivalent of five quarters." Cite needed.
 * ''"We're at rock bottom now...but if we start pointing a finger, we'll go 0-14" All quotes need citations.
 * ''Defensive tackle Pat Toomay complained that "the officials made us look like a bunch of idiots". All quotes need cites.
 * ''"He later referred to Ralston as a "horse's ass" and said, "I don't like any part of him. His day is coming". quotes need cites.
 * ''The other two awards/records need citations.
 * All material here, including quotes, is cited. There might be three quotes in a row, or a quote followed by some non-quote material, but they will all be covered by the following citation. The only exception is where material from several sources is combined in the same section, then the section is followed by all citations. I don't think I have any quotes in such a section, though. Let me know if you need me to do something to make that more explicit, like pasting the citation to follow each quote; though I'm concerned that it might lead to a cluttered appearance.


 * ''"The Buccaneers were mistake-prone and ineffective throughout the first three quarters." Specifics or citation needed.
 * Specifics added


 * ''"Under the pressure of a long losing streak, Coach McKay became known for issuing notable, often hilarious, statements." Feels POV.
 * Changed.


 * ''Since it was their first season, a note of the players they got in the expansion draft (just some notable ones, no need to list every single one since then it'd duplicate the roster) in the summary section would be helpful.
 * Done. The expansion draft turns out not to have been that significant a source of talent, as most of their starters were obtained from trades and few of their expansion draftees stayed with the team for longer than one season, so I'll be expanding the offseason/preseason sections to better reflect how the team was put together. I'll see what I can put together on the coaching staff, too; they had some pretty good names on that staff.
 * This suggestion alerted me to the idea that there should be a little more to show how the team was assembled, so I added a short rundown of the coaching staff, and I'm adding sections for the offseason and preseason. A number of their really important players came via trades and waivers late in the preseason, as they were able to pick up the overflow from more-talented teams that didn't have enough roster space for all their players. There were also some positions, notably quarterback, that they were not able to satisfactorily address through either of the drafts, so I'd like the article to reflect how the team was put together.


 * ''"As an expansion team, the Buccaneers were given extra picks in the 2nd-5th rounds." I'm confused. In the table above this you show them, yet further on you mention that they traded all four of them to get assorted players. Was this after they chose the players, and which pick number goes to each trade?
 * Corrected.


 * ''"The team started out with solid defensive play, but they began to wear out as the Buccaneers' offensive ineptitude meant that the defense spent a lot of time on the field." cite needed (namely for the last part)
 * That was more of a summation, so I'll be looking either for a citation from some kind of "year in review" article, or further examples to back it up.


 * ''Rick Jennings only spent two days with the Bucs; that would make a nice addition in the season article (further shows futility I guess)
 * Added. I think it's a good reflection of the apparent circus atmosphere surrounding the team; that was my rationale for including the McKay quotes. There's actually an even better story of how they claimed a player off waivers from Dallas and then waived him the next week, he wound up traveling with the team and going so many thousand miles just to ultimately get from Dallas to home. In reality, I doubt that it's so unusual for players to do such short stints with teams, but Jennings' story is cool because he went from the Bucs to the Super Bowl Raiders, then played with two more teams before returning to the Bucs the next preseason as the last man on their roster, and apparently spent about the same amount of time with them that season. IIRC, he then returned to the Raiders, all of which is giving me a headache just to think about.


 * ''I believe in the Colts game, McGriff completed a pass totaling more yards than either of the two QBs had on the day; might be a nice addition.
 * I guess you meant the longest of all Buccaneers quarterbacks; it wasn't the longest of all quarterbacks in the game. Added.


 * ''Refs #35 and #39 (buccaneers.com) aren't working, need replacement.
 * Refs are renumbered since the review, but the buccaneers.com links are repaired.

As of 1-19, complete and awaiting further review. GuySperanza (talk) 17:04, 20 January 2010 (UTC)