Talk:1984 (advertisement)/Archive 1

Competitor's slogan
Okay, so you don't like including Apple's competitor's slogan, which is one of the things they were trying to differientiate themselves from... Like I said, if you don't like it, toss it to talk, maybe there's a way to reword it that someone else (not me, not tonight) will figure out. If it's just deleted, then it has to be reput in before anyone can work on it. ~ender 2003-04-19 03:21 MST


 * Well just including the slogan doesn't really say much & it reads like POV against Microsoft (not that I'm against being against M$ personally, but NPOV and all that). By all means include an analysis. The text is still there, you can grab it form the page history :-) -- Tarquin 10:13 Apr 19, 2003 (UTC)


 * Yeah, like I said I'm not up for doing analysis right now, I wanna go to sleep. :)  But I think it's disingenuous to say that all the information is in the page history.  That's not apparent to anyone who's just looking at a page, even I as someone who edits pages doesn't go thru every iteration of a page looking for hidden or lost information.  Do you know *anyone* who does that??
 * I'm guessing that what I'm asking for is a stronger policy than:
 * [Wikipedia:Most_common_Wikipedia_faux_pas] #5 (yes it's argueable it's 'useful content', which is why I say toss it to talk)
 * [Wikipedia:Our_Replies_to_Our_Critics]
 * ~ender 2003-04-19 03:29 MST


 * I don't mean it's available in page history for the general reader -- I mean that a Wikipedia editor such as yourself can grab it back and reinsert it on the current version of the page. -- Tarquin 10:25 Apr 19, 2003 (UTC)

Dialogue
Of course, that's just what Big Brother says. Any reason not to include the narration, too?


 * On January 24th, Apple computer will introduce Macintosh. And you'll see why 1984 won't be like "1984".

(Thijs) According to ciadvertising.org the complete dialog is:


 * My friends, each of you is a single cell in the great body of the State. And today, that great body has purged itself of parasites. We have triumphed over the unprincipled dissemination of facts. The thugs and wreckers have been cast out. And the poisonous weeds of disinformation have been consigned to the dustbin of history. Let each and every cell rejoice! For today we celebrate the first, glorious anniversary of the Information Purification Directive! We have created, for the first time   in all history, a garden of pure ideology, where each worker may bloom secure from the pests of contradictory and confusing truths. Our Unification of Thought is a more powerful weapon than any fleet or army on Earth! We are one people. With one will. One resolve. One cause. Our enemies shall talk themselves to death. And we will bury them with their own confusion! We shall prevail!


 * Note - the first three sentences of this Big Brother speech do not appear in the ad. Perhaps they were written for an earlier draft? The ad starts at "For today we celebrate the first, glorious anniversary..." Rillian 02:38, 28 August 2005 (UTC)


 * I came to this page hoping to find out who did the voice-over at the end of the ad, and was disappointed that neither Wikipedia nor Google had an answer for me. If I had to make a guess, I'd pick Don Lafontaine, but unless he's more versatile than I give him credit, I think it has to be someone else. If anyone recognizes the voice, please add it to the article as it's surely relevant. Workaphobia 22:20, 27 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I emailed Don LaFontaine and he said it wasn't him so it must be someone else. Dustinr88 05:14, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Discrepancy
This article says: "aired on January 22, 1984 during the fourth quarter of Super Bowl XVIII, during a time out called the "two minute warning"". The folklore.org page says: "The Mac team was told that the commercial would air early in the third quarter, at the first commercial break after the second half kick-off. [...] the commercial looked great when it aired at the designated time".

Not that it really matters when it aired, but ... well, when did it air? :-)


 * Well when I rewrote the article last year, I had it as the 3rd quarter (most likely based on information from a Mac site). We previously had it as 'halftime', but it looks like it was changed to '4th quarter' by User:68.83.242.193 on 24 Jan 2005 without explanation. Unless anyone can find some other supporting references, I'd switch it back to 3rd quarter. -- Solipsist 06:51, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * Unless I'm mistaken, there's no two minute warning in the third quarter. Thus, the current statement that it was during the two-minute warning in the third quarter must be mistaken, no matter when it aired. -- Coneslayer 19:51, 2005 Apr 22 (UTC)
 * I have no idea of the typical structure of breaks, timeouts and commercials during a Super Bowl. But the changes to say the ad aired in the fourth quarter have been made without an edit summary nor explanation. We have at least one credible reference that says the 1984 ad was aired during the 3rd quarter 'at the first commercial break after the second half kick-off'. So lets remove any mention of a 'two-minute warning' and leave it at that, unless someone can find a better reference. -- Solipsist 09:30, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * There absolutely is never a two-minute warning in the third or first quarters of American football, only the first and fourth. -- Xinoph 06:00, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

iPod
Ironically one could make a very similar commercial now, removing the giant screen but giving every drone an iPod. Funny how the cultural monopoly swung the other way and fell so comforatbly on Apple's shoulders....
 * Somebody else was thinking exactly the same thing Kewpid 10:08, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
 * LMAO! Superb! Adambisset 11:43, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Bill Gates talk
Should the talk Bill Gates gave when MS was buying Apple stock, in which he deliberately looked like big brother, be mentioned here? Andjam 15:03, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

1984 only launched the Mac in the USA
The article states that this ad launched the Apple Macintosh in 1984. However, the ad was not shown outside of the US! The article needs to mention that the ad only launched the Mac in the USA. 60.224.116.152 14:56, 25 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Exactly. The article should say explicitly what country was the ad aired in. Now you can only guess it, if you know what Super Bowl is. Kpalion 00:35, 24 January 2006 (UTC)


 * As the article notes, the traction gained from "only showing the advert once" caused the advert to gain network-effect and be shown by news-media all over the place. Sladen 03:17, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

YTMND
Added a reference to the emerging YTMND fad starring the commercial and Conan O'Brien.
 * There is someone going around randomly deleting YTMND references. If it gets deleted, just restore it.  Also, please add your sig next time; you gain credibility that way. Crazyswordsman 19:15, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
 * It doesn't belong here. A non-notable joke on some website doesn't warrant a reference on this page.  If it belongs anywhere, it belongs on one of the YTMND pages. —Cleared as filed. 02:57, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
 * An Alexa ranking under 2500 is not "some website"Crazyswordsman 03:05, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
 * A non-notable joke on a web site with an Alexa ranking under 2500 doesn't belong here. It means nothing in the context of the commercial. —Cleared as filed. 04:00, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

2004 version
Does anyone know if the 2004 version is available online. A link to it and perhaps a discussion of the changes would be appropriate. savidan(talk) (e@) 23:10, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

YouTube links
This article is one of thousands on Wikipedia that have a link to YouTube in it. Based on the External links policy, most of these should probably be removed. I'm putting this message here, on this talk page, to request the regular editors take a look at the link and make sure it doesn't violate policy. In short: 1. 99% of the time YouTube should not be used as a source. 2. We must not link to material that violates someones copyright. If you are not sure if the link on this article should be removed, feel free to ask me on my talk page and I'll review it personally. Thanks. ---J.S (t|c) 06:46, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Fact corrections..
I believe the voice-over at the end of the 1984 commercial is by Alexander Scourby, not Edward Grover.

Also, according to the NY Times the day following the Superbowl airing, the cost of it was $400K USD.

Capek 05:06, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Article assessment
I have rated this article as B class because it covers most of the important information about the subject and has some references. I rated it as low importance to WP:TV because articles about specific commercials are of relatively low importance to the project as a whole. --Opark 77 15:30, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

POV?
''It remains to date one of the most famous and talked about commercials of all time. ''

It is not clear where this came from. Is it "most famous" commercial in the US? Most famous commercial among advertising professionals? Same with "Most Talked" about. In what context is it talked about and by whom? Are there any references to support this statement? Sssubhash 15:54, 10 May 2007 (UTC)Subhash

Red or orange shorts?
The introduction of this article says:"The ad showed an unnamed heroine (played by Anya Major) wearing red shorts, red running shoes, and a white tank top with a Picasso-style picture of Apple's Macintosh computer" Later, at Setting section, it says:"The heroine wears orange shorts, red running shoes, a white tank top with a Picasso-style picture of Apple's Macintosh computer, and a white sweat band on her left wrist and a red one on her right." So... Is it actually Red or Orange? Also, tank top is linked to a disambiguation page. Someone who know exactly the difference could link it to the correct article. --CrazyTerabyte 19:42, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Hillary Clinton
Ought we to mention the take-off on YouTube starring Hillary Clinton? That was fairly notable. 209.190.233.66 18:58, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

60-second version not extant?
I followed the links the supposedly point to the 60-second version, and I searched a bit, but I can't find it anywhere.

18:40, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Proposed Merger
Proposal: I beleive [sic] that the ad should be merged with apple computer advertising. My reasoning is that, I beleive [sic] that if all the apple advertisements are in the one article, they are easier to compare and contrast. Before it was very difficult to try and find the appropriate article. Now it is a lot easier.


 * Support. I strongly beleive [sic] that the 1984 ad is one of the best and most publicized articles made in the past 25 years however, this does not mean the article content will be any different if it was part of the apple computer advertising article, it will be collaborated so, all he articles will be easy to access. Useamac 17:00, 9 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Oppose. As one of the most well-known TV commercials of the past 25 years, this ad more than merits a stand-alone article. An article covering Apple's overall advertising strategy is certainly a worthy one as well. Simply summarize 1984 and link to this detailed article. Rillian 13:27, 10 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Support The Article content will not shange if it is collaborated with other apple campaigns - it will only become easier to find. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.59.112.101 (talk • contribs) 20:41, 10 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I wish to retract this vote, I have accidently voted twice 0 I have been voting on a lot of things and mage a mixtake, sorry! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Useamac (talk • contribs) 03:26, 14 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Oppose. This commercial is iconic on its own.  A brief description/overview should be in the overall Apple advertising article, but this commercial is so significant in terms of the history of advertising, that it without a doubt deserves its own article.  Fairsing 02:28, 11 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Oppose. This commercial is larger than Apple its an icon of publicity on the 80's, better known than any, I for instance entered directly to this page searching for it.  02:28, —The preceding unsigned comment was added by gica (talk • contribs) 03:42, 15 December 2006  (UTC)


 * Oppose. I thought this commercial was widely regarded as the best commercial of all time, regularly topping lists of great/memorable commercials.  It deserves it's own article due to this noteriety.  Summarize and link to this from other apple advertising articles.  SolarWind 04:04, 26 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Strongly Oppose. The 1984 Apple Commercial was not just another campaign in the same way that the iPod was not just another product.  As noted, the advert changed advertising—and significantly so.  The advert is a case-study in the wider world and should be respected and reflected as such on Wikipedia.  If the entry on the 1984 advert was hard to find, then it is likely that there are in sufficient appropriate links... merging is not going to help in this case. "1984" was more akin to a singular one-off event, than to a campaign;  merging would probably achieve the opposite of the suggested intention—leading to a necessarily less detailed and more obfuscated article.   Sladen 03:14, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Strongly Oppose per Sladen86.137.68.183 19:29, 5 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Oppose. Too much information for this particular article (I can see someone suggesting it be broken off separately) and the commercial is pretty famous.Squad51 03:51, 24 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Oppose. This commercial is far too notable, and in a sense, iconic to the 1980s decade. As a cultural icon, the commercial requires a more indepth analysis and coverage than most other advertising campaigns. It more than deserves it's own article.Unusual Gazelle  19:49, 27 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Suggest Category:Apple Advertising since their ubiquitous (and often misleading) Apple vs PC commercials are also quite notable. Would make it easier to find. A subcat of apple computer? --Uncle Bungle (talk) 03:03, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * This cat already exists - see Category:Apple Inc. advertising. -Classicfilms (talk) 23:21, 18 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Strongly Oppose per above. This is a notable moment in computer history and of interest to scholars (see Ted Friedman's 2005 text, "Electric Dreams," Chapter 5: Apple's 1984). While a commercial, it is also an important work in its own right and it should be noted that it was directed by Ridley Scott. It should remain a separate article, though the article itself needs to be expanded. -Classicfilms (talk) 17:59, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

I have re-worked and added material to the article. I think that in its current state, the article underscores the notability of this commercial. Considering the fact that the current count is 2 (support- retracting one vote per the request of the editor who posted it) to 9 (oppose), I would like to suggest that we close this merge proposal. -Classicfilms (talk) 23:27, 18 May 2008 (UTC)


 * As there are no responses, I will consider the discussion closed. -Classicfilms (talk) 22:23, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

BEE-BOOP
We should mention that BEE-BOOP! you hear when the heroine appears. Watch the ad and you'll know what I mean. It sounds like a trumpet.--Editor510 (talk) 18:07, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Dialogue removal
I removed the dialogue section which can be seen here at this diff. Including the entire text of the dialogue does not fall within fair use and is a potential WP:COPYRIGHT issue. However, if small portions of the dialogue are useful for analysis, we can add them. Please refer to this section on fair use of text for an explanation (generally including the entirety of non-free text exceeds fair use): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Non-free_content#Text -Classicfilms (talk) 15:41, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Futurama?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Stock "After, That Guy wastes piles of money on flying chairs, expensive suits, and an enigmatic television commercial (which is a reference to the 1984 Macintosh commercial), Zoidberg gets fed up and sells his stock to That Guy for a sandwich "Net gain for Zoidberg". After draining the company's funds and its employees' morale, That Guy announces that he is selling Planet Express to Mom." From - Wikipedia "The PlanEx (itself a reference to FedEx) advertisement is a copy of Apple's famous 1984 television commercial containing for some inexplicable reason the names of Grover Cleveland and William Howard Taft, flipped vertically to look like gibberish." From - Wikipedia cal05000 (talk) 23:49, 12 September 2008 (UTC)