Talk:1986 FBI Miami shootout

Spree
I have removed this article from the category "Spree shootings" because to me it doesn't appear to come under that category - see Spree killer for what appears to be a definition. If I'm wrong (I know nothing about this article's subject and little about killing sprees), please correct me.--A bit iffy 17:31, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

Fictionalized account
There is a very detailed fictionalized (but mostly correct) account of this gun battle in the book Unintended Consequences by John Ross. That might deserve a mention.

What?
I thought the kevlar vest was invented in the late 1960s?
 * Kevlar vests had been used by law enforcement agencies for years by 1986.TL36 (talk) 04:31, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

spam filter preventing edit
I'm trying to remove the word "unfortunately" from "The biggest website about the events of April 11th, 1986 (unfortunately only in Polish)" but the spam filter is preventing that. How is this supposed to be fixed?
 * What filter? I edited it... 66.36.140.217 04:55, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Michael Platt
Michael Platt is being redirected to this page. Michael Platt is also a writer for the TV series Weeds. Can someone please set up a disambiguation? Joneboi 23:00, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Lighting conditions
Would someone like to add additional information about the lighting conditions at the time of the incident. I read somewhere that the car Matix and Platt were driving came to rest in a heavily shaded area, which made it harder for FBI agents to see them clearly. FBI agencts, by contrast, were fully illuminated and easily spotted by the two bank robbers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.226.104.225 (talk) 22:19, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
 * While a tree at the site may have created "deep shade," it doesn't seem to have been a factor. The FBI agents saw their targets well enough to score approximately 18 hits on the two suspects.  Its the FBI agents making almost all the hits on the suspects during the first minute of the gun battle while the would-be robbers' fire was relatively ineffective.  Also, agents Orrantia, Grogan, and Dove should have shared any advantage provided by this "deep shade."  The FBI agents that were killed were shot at point blank range, not picked off as "fully illuminated" targets. This is another one of several reasons that have been given for this tragedy that doesn't hold up under analysis.TL36 (talk) 05:08, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Two useful sources.
I've found two sources that may very well be of help regarding this article. One is at http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs7.htm, and provides an extract from ''Anderson, W. French, M.D.: Forensic Analysis of the April 11, 1986, FBI Firefight. W. French Anderson, M.D., 1996 (127 pages, paperback)'', and the second is the FBI inquiry into the incident, http://foia.fbi.gov/foiaindex/shooting.htm. Massad Ayoob's Ayoob Files: The Book is rife with inaccuracies, as detailed here. Geoff B (talk) 18:28, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

I just want to note that this article, or at least the "shootout" section, seems to depend heavily on that one source fireamstactical.com, but doesn't seem to acknowledge this in the article itself... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.248.72.171 (talk) 06:59, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Perpetrator Photos
I can't seem to find any photos of the perpetrators. Is there a particular reason for this? Or is it just bad search engine performance?--Anthonzi (talk) 23:07, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Neutrality
I edited "The firefight claimed the lives" to "during the firefight... were killed." The wording seemed melodramatic to me. Zenblend (talk) 05:25, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Dead link
During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!


 * http://foia.fbi.gov/shooting/shooting1a.pdf
 * In 1986 FBI Miami shootout on 2011-05-25 05:17:16, 404 Not Found
 * In 1986 FBI Miami shootout on 2011-06-07 12:10:33, 404 Not Found

--JeffGBot (talk) 12:10, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Dead link 2
During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!


 * http://www.fbi.gov/libref/hallhonor/dovegrogan.htm
 * In 1986 FBI Miami shootout on 2011-05-25 05:17:18, 404 Not Found
 * In 1986 FBI Miami shootout on 2011-06-07 12:10:45, 404 Not Found

--JeffGBot (talk) 12:11, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Dead link 3
During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!


 * http://pinecrest-fl.gov/streets.html
 * In 1986 FBI Miami shootout on 2011-05-25 05:17:16, 404 Not Found
 * In 1986 FBI Miami shootout on 2011-06-07 12:11:15, 404 Not Found

--JeffGBot (talk) 12:11, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://foia.fbi.gov/shooting/shooting1a.pdf
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 * Added archive http://www.webcitation.org/5gcuh7u15?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.firearmstactical.com%2Fbriefs7.htm to http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs7.htm

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RFC: Ruger Mini-14
There is an RFC about whether to include this incident in the Ruger Mini-14 article. See Talk:Ruger Mini-14. Felsic2 (talk) 20:08, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

military type .223 caliber weapon
If it's a mini-14, and it's .223, it's not "military type" 98.118.62.140 (talk) 17:49, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
 * In both instances where the term is used in the article, it is coming directly from the cited source, which is the FBI report. Where this is used in both the source and the article, it's not saying that the Ruger Mini-14 is a military weapon. In the Brinks holdup and the Barnett bank robbery, they did not know the firearm that was used - they described it as "military type" and that it was "possibly a Mini-14." NPOV means don't let your personal POV override what the cited source actually says. Butlerblog (talk) 18:55, 2 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Most of the edits trying to remove/change this come from anonymous users, so I'm guessing most do not bother read the edit history or the talk page. Most of those users are unlikely to look at the cited source either, so they may be inclined to believe previous editors are putting a bias into the POV. On the off-chance that you're editing this information and bother to read this, let me be clear - where the the term "military type" is used in this context comes directly from the cited source. That's what NPOV is - the article is stating what comes from a reliable source.  If you want to change it, then your argument can't be that the term used is wrong. Instead, you'd need to argue that the source is not a reliable source. Butlerblog (talk) 16:07, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Ruger sells the Mini-14 to the civilian market, not to the military. By definition, the Ruger Mini-14 is a civilian firearm. 98.118.62.140 (talk) 05:22, 11 February 2021 (UTC)