Talk:1987 Formula One World Championship

Jim Clark Cup standings
Does anyone know the Jim Clark Cup standings (for normally aspirated runners)?

Trussardi
I've commented out the Trussardi entry of a Benetton B186 - I've heard that this was proposed, but I don't think it ever came close enough to happening to warrant inclusion here. Happy to hear otherwise, with a ref. Cheers. 4u1e 23:35, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
 * See this Nostalgia Forum thread. It would seem that the entry was never accepted, so I suggest that although interesting, this should not be listed on this page. Cheers. 4u1e 09:09, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Piquet's points
Why ARE (I should say!) Nelson Piquet's points shown as 73 (76)? I've looked for a note on the page but can't find one and don't understand why it's there! (you can tell i'm a 90's F1 fan lol!)

--80.4.6.146 01:30, 4 December 2007 (UTC) db1987db


 * Because in 1987 a driver could only count his best 11 results towards the Championship. Piquet scored points in 12 races, so he had to drop the 3 points he scored in the Spanish GP from his Championship total. I've added an explanatory footnote (similar to the ones in the 1988, 1989 and 1990 season summary articles). Thanks for pointing out the omission. DH85868993 02:04, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Aha, I thought it may be that, the reason why I didn't suggest it is because he was the only driver to have the bracketed points next to his name, but I supposed that's down to Piquet being the only driver to score in more than 11 races (although Senna did come very close to the 12 (Estoril)...thank you for your help --80.4.6.146 02:56, 4 December 2007 (UTC) db1987db

Also, the Normally-Aspirated Runners part, should it not be called the Naturally-Aspirated Runners? Because in the latters' own article, it mentions that the term Normally is used incorrectly? (If you get what I mean!) --80.4.6.146 (talk) 23:32, 4 December 2007 (UTC) db1987db

Points don't add up
How many Clark/Chapman points did Robert Moreno claim for AGS at the Australian Grand Prix? On the Jim Clark points tally Moreno scored 4 points yet in the Colin Chapman points 6 points were added to AGS. The dilemma comes from Yannick Dalmas finishing second in the non-pointscoreing second Lola. So was second place points re-allocated to the next car or not? We seem to have taken an each-way bet and I'm sure that's not right. --Falcadore (talk) 07:34, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Autocourse 1987/88 shows the progressive points after each round like this:
 * {|class=wikitable


 * Driver/Constructor||ESP||MEX||JPN||AUS
 * Dalmas||0||3||7||0
 * Moreno||0||0||0||4
 * Lola||34||46||50||50
 * AGS||35||35||35||41
 * }
 * Following the points tables for the Australian Grand Prix there's a footnote which reads "Dalmas was ruled to have competed in insufficient events to be eligible for World Championship [sic] points; points table amended by FISA accordingly."
 * Autocourse's points tables do indeed seem to suggest that Moreno was awarded 4 points for the Australian Grand Prix, but AGS were awarded 6. It should be noted however that Autocourse's total for Lola after Australia (50) differs from Wikipedia's total (43), and would imply that Lola retained the 7 points "scored" by Dalmas in Mexico and Japan. I couldn't find any "official" Clark/Chapman tables on www.fia.com (or www.formula1.com) - it would be interesting to see what the 1988 FIA Yellow Book (which would contain the 1987 Championship standings) says. DH85868993 (talk) 16:55, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
 * According to the 1988 FIA Yearbook, Roberto Moreno was awarded 4 points towards the Trophee Jim Clark at GP Australie and El Charro AGS were awarded 4 points towards the Trophee Colin Chapman at that event. GTHO (talk) 00:13, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
 * When you write "1988 FIA Yearbook" do you mean the "rules and regulations" book published by the FIA, or the glossy, Autocourse-like book published by Grid Publishing? Either way, what does it show as the points totals for Dalmas, Moreno, Lola and AGS after the Australian Grand Prix? Thanks. DH85868993 (talk) 02:53, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Then AGS final pointscore should be 39, not 41. --Falcadore (talk) 05:39, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm referring to the 1988 "rules and regulations" book published by the FIA. Moreno is shown in 6th place with 4 points and Dalmas in 7th place with 0 points. Lola doesn't rate a mention under Trophee Colin Chapman, but Larousse/Calmels does, in 2nd place with 52 points. El Charro AGS is listed in 3rd place with 39 points. GTHO (talk) 09:08, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't understand how the FIA Yearbook arrives at a total of 52 points for Lola/Larrousse. Here are the end-of-season totals from a number of sources:
 * {|class=wikitable
 * Then AGS final pointscore should be 39, not 41. --Falcadore (talk) 05:39, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm referring to the 1988 "rules and regulations" book published by the FIA. Moreno is shown in 6th place with 4 points and Dalmas in 7th place with 0 points. Lola doesn't rate a mention under Trophee Colin Chapman, but Larousse/Calmels does, in 2nd place with 52 points. El Charro AGS is listed in 3rd place with 39 points. GTHO (talk) 09:08, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't understand how the FIA Yearbook arrives at a total of 52 points for Lola/Larrousse. Here are the end-of-season totals from a number of sources:
 * {|class=wikitable


 * Driver/Constructor||Autocourse 1987/88||1988 FIA Yearbook (published by the FIA)||Formula One Yearbook (Grid Publishing)
 * Dalmas||0||0||0
 * Moreno||4||4||4
 * Lola (Larrousse/Calmels)||50||52||56
 * AGS||41||39||39
 * }
 * All three sources agree on 0 points for Dalmas and 4 points for Moreno = "Dalmas ineligible to score points" and "3rd place for Moreno in Australia". If we accept that the points totals after Spain are (Dalmas 0, Moreno 0, Lola/Larrousse 34, AGS 35) then following the same logic you get end-of-season totals of 35+0+0+4=39 for AGS and 34+(9+0)+(0+0)+(0+0)=43 for Lola/Larrousse. Alternatively, if you imagine that Dalmas was ineligible to score points, but Lola/Larrousse still scored points for his results (i.e. sort of the reverse of the McLaren 2007 situation, where the drivers were eligible to score points but the team weren't), then Lola/Larrousse would have a total of 34+(9+3)+(0+4)+(0+6)=56. Can anyone work out how the FIA Yearbook arrives at a total of 52 for Lola/Larrousse? DH85868993 (talk) 11:44, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Are there any DNFs which are NCs? There have been a few times (notably at Monaco) where NCs have been awarded points. --Falcadore (talk) 07:55, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think so. Alliot retired on lap 1 in Japan, and on lap 46 of 82 in Australia, so there's no reason for either of them to be "NCs". What I suggest we do is:
 * change AGS's end-of-season total to 39 (per the FIA Yearbook and Formula One Yearbook)
 * change Lola/Larrousse's end-of-season total to 52, citing the FIA Yearbook as a source. But I'm open to other suggestions on that one.
 * DH85868993 (talk) 12:19, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Is it possible for me to place a scan of the Yearbook page at this location or elsewhere to assist with this? GTHO (talk) 03:22, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
 * change AGS's end-of-season total to 39 (per the FIA Yearbook and Formula One Yearbook)
 * change Lola/Larrousse's end-of-season total to 52, citing the FIA Yearbook as a source. But I'm open to other suggestions on that one.
 * DH85868993 (talk) 12:19, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Is it possible for me to place a scan of the Yearbook page at this location or elsewhere to assist with this? GTHO (talk) 03:22, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

So, do we have a solution yet, or should we just delete the table until there is one? --Falcadore (talk) 07:58, 6 July 2012 (UTC)