Talk:1988 United States presidential election/Archive 1

Map Colors
Can someone point me to the discussion where it was resolved to change the map/party colors on all the US election pages away from the traditional Red=Democrat/Blue=Republican? I very much object to this change, and am hoping to discuss the matter with the contributors that decided upon this policy of quasi-revisionist history. It is simply unconscionable to me to see FDR is now represented by Blue, that Lake Reagan has disappeared, or that Lincoln now emblazons the Northern states in Red. Particularly since the official source for these maps - the US Government - continues to use the traditional colors. --patton1138 (talk) 17:13, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Electoral results table
I started to fill in the blanks on this page - for example, the number of "other" voters should be able to be calculated by subtracting each listed candidate's votes from the listed total. Unfortunately, it turns out that the original numbers on this page don't add up properly in the first place. For example, 47,946,000 (Bush's listed total) is 52.3% of 91,591,486 (the listed overall total), not 53.4% (Bush's listed percentage). So, something is wrong, but it's unclear which of those numbers - 47,946,000 or 53.4% or 91,591,486 - is wrong. So, I started investigating on the web, and have found a bunch of pages supposedly listing totals and percentages, none of which seem to agree with each other. Does anyone know of a definitive source? -Rwv37 22:39, May 2, 2004 (UTC)


 * There seems to be a disagreement between the National Archives and the Dept of Interior "National Atlas" project on the exact numbers on the popular vote. I'm betting one is preliminary results, and one is final results.  While one would think the National Archives would be correct, there seems to have been far less care put into those web pages than the National Atlas.  Moreover, since the National Atlas has more complete information, I prefer to use the National Atlas numbers.  However, this warrents further investigation.  -- RobLa 03:20, 4 May 2004 (UTC)

I think there should be more about the primaries in all of these presidential election articles. Does anybody know some of the major endorsements in the party primaries? Pimpalicious 04:25, 7 October 2004 (UTC)

The total is 20 votes off from the sum of the listed votes. The numbers listed for Clinton and Bush are different from the source (Federal Register).

Um, Jack Tanner is listed as a candidate for the 1988 Democratic nomination for president. He wasn't a real person -- he was a fictional character in Robert Altman's miniseries Tanner '88, which was ABOUT a congressman from Michigan running for the Democratic nomination, played by Michael Murphy. I don't know if this was included as a joke, but I really feel that it shouldn't be included lest it confuse some people doing research.
 * I removed the Tanner reference: Monday, December 13, 2004.

It was a kind of meta meta joke. :)
 * I liked it too, but, hmm, gotta stick to the facts -- the real ones, anyway. Didn't Tanner get some write in votes, as well?

Electoral picture peculiarity
Why is the graphic depiction of electoral votes skewed? Rarely nowadays does one see democratic votes colored red and and republican votes blue. --maru (talk) Contribs 20:52, 15 January 2006 (UTC)


 * This post has been copied to Wikipedia talk:Style for U.S. presidential election, yyyy. Please direct your responses there.


 * — DLJessup (talk) 21:49, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Minor parties
I was just wondering why Kenoyer is mentioned in the list of other candidates running. Ten other tickets received more votes than Kenoyer but are not mentioned: Populist, Consumer, Am. Independent, LaRouche, Right to Life, Workers' League, Socialist Workers, Peace and Freedom, Prohibition, and Workers World. Chronicler3 12:11, 14 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Because there are some Socialists who contribute to Wikipedia and are somewhat biased in the subject of their contributions.


 * — DLJessup (talk) 14:15, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Fulani's 1988 running mates?
This Alaskan page gives Lenora Fulani's running mate as "Burke" http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:_8EMDKy_3IYJ:www.gov.state.ak.us/ltgov/elections/partysta.htm I had thought her running mate was Joyce Dattner. Did she have more than one running mate in 1988, and if so, who were they, and why was there more than one? I found this page: http://www.sfweekly.com/issues/1999-08-11/music4_2.html that says Dattner was one of six VP candidates in 1988; it doesn't name the others. Esquizombi 15:11, 21 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I've moved this information into the main article, along with the cites you give. I used the Internet Archive for the Google cache, which may go away.


 * — DLJessup (talk) 14:34, 24 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks! I was keeping notes on my findings on her running mates here: Talk:Lenora_Fulani.  Harold Moore is another one.  I added some info to New_Alliance_Party about the multiple running mates.  Odd phenomenon.  Still haven't made it to the state library to try to answer this and other questions. Esquizombi 02:34, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

David Duke candidacy
David Duke started the year 1988 as a contender for the Democratic nomination for President. He entered eight primaries: NH, TX, LA, AR, MO, OK, WV, and NJ. He performed best in his home state, where he won half of his 45,000 nationwide votes.

During the primary season, the Populist Party, a collection of right wing state parties remaining from the old George Wallace movement of 1968, endorsed him for President, but he had already been in the Democratic field long before that convention met 3/11-13/1988.

Here is a site with more information: http://www.ourcampaigns.com/CandidateDetail.html?CandidateID=4279 Chronicler3 11:20, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Sour Grapes
"Overall, Bush's relatively big win (at least in the electoral college) can be attributed to general satisfaction with the status quo in the country. Peace and prosperity--not any great love for Bush himself--propelled the Republican Party to its third consecutive presidential win. Reagan's popularity and Bush's position as Vice President did more to help his cause than any great dissatisfaction with the "liberal" Dukakis. Bush had essentially no coatails, and he came into office with a Democratic Congress angry and vindictive after all the negative campaign he ran against Dukakis. Even though the Democrats may have lost their presidential bid they were able to strengthen their majorities in Congress."

This sounds like a Democrat's sour grapes to me. While not a Nixon-esque avalanche, Bush's victory was big in both the electoral and popular vote. The rest of the paragraph is POV and appears to be someone's opinion. I will remove this in a few days if no one objects. 198.203.192.166 13:29, 16 May 2007 (UTC) Matt T.

Tanner '88
I was surprised to see no (minor) mention of Altman and Trudeau's televised campaign for Jack Tanner, which seems noteworthy even if it had little effect on the actual results. Perhaps just a short note at the end, with a cross-reference? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.64.25.3 (talk) 13:33, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

better picture of Dukakis
there's got to be a better picture of Dukakis around, where we can actually see his face. Can someone find one?Tallicfan20 (talk) 16:08, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with File:Ben Fernandez.jpg
The image File:Ben Fernandez.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check


 * That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
 * That this article is linked to from the image description page.

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File:Sengore.jpg may be deleted
I have tagged File:Sengore.jpg, which is in use in this article for deletion because it does not have a copyright tag. If a copyright tag is not added within seven days the image will be deleted. -- Chris  07:33, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Ron Paul Home State
Changed Ron Paul home state to Texas. Paul was born in Pennsylvania, but resided in Texas at the time. I did this because this page lists George Bush's home state as Texas when he was born in Massachusetts. Similarly the United States presidential election, 2008 page John McCain's home state is listed as Arizona when he was born in the Panama Canal Zone and Obama's home state as Illinois when he was born in Hawaii, and many other examples. LCpl (talk) 02:50, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Repeated possible copyright violations
Tilden76 -- you keep replacing Dukakis1988rally cropped.jpg with MichaelSDukakis.png. The description for MichaelSDukakis.png, uploaded and written by you, states, "The following picture comes from NNDB. Nowhere on their website was there a "Contact" link or a policy concerning the use of their photographs. As a result, I will properly attribute this photograph to NNDB." That essentially attempts to kick the can regarding copyright to NNDB.com, but that will be of little comfort if the copyright holder of the original image scanned as MichaelSDukakis.png decides to litigate. To my eye, your uploaded image appears to be a professional studio portrait. While it may be in the public domain as a government image, it also may not.

On the other hand, I can state unequivocally that the rights for Dukakis1988rally cropped.jpg have been released to Wikipedia, since I was the photographer and uploader of the original image on which it's based. Further, it is of high topicality for an article on "United States presidential election, 1988" since it was taken at UCLA's Pauley Pavilion during a campaign rally for Dukakis on Mon, 7 Nov 1988, the night before the election. That is, during the campaign that's the topic of the article. Since we do not currently know the date of the image scanned as MichaelSDukakis.png, we have no way to assess whether it has similar topicality.

In light of this, what's your justification for exposing Wikipedia to possible litigation? What's your justification for replacing an image of known topicality for an unknown one? Hal (talk) 08:23, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Possible WP:NFC violation
MichaelSDukakis.png keeps being edited in to replace Dukakis1988rally.jpg. WP:NFC states:

"There is no automatic entitlement to use non-free content in an article. Articles may in accordance with the guideline use brief verbatim textual excerpts from copyrighted media, properly attributed or cited to its original source or author. Other non-free content—including all copyrighted images, audio and video clips, and other media files that lack a free content license—may be used on the English Wikipedia only where all 10 of the following criteria are met." (emphasis added)

The first criterion is:

"1. No free equivalent. Non-free content is used only where no free equivalent is available, or could be created, that would serve the same encyclopedic purpose."

Dukakis1988rally.jpg is a free image. MichaelSDukakis.png is not. It's tough to say MichaelSDukakis.png meets the "No free equivalent" standard when it keeps replacing a free equivalent. Hal (talk) 16:31, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

'Home State'
What determines someone's home state?

In this article, Bush's home state is given as Texas, but he was born in Mass. Who decides what his home state is?Jandrews23jandrews23 (talk) 20:17, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Pat Robertson's bid
Why is Pat Robertson not included in the candidate gallery? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Essent (talk • contribs) 01:24, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

True. And what about Patricia Schroeder on the Democratic side? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.220.172.68 (talk) 11:54, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Popular vote similarity to 2008 election
I noticed this by complete accident, but the popular vote for the '88 election (53.4% to 45.6%) is very similar to the '08 election (52.9% to 45.7%). I think this is so similar that it might be worth mentioning in the "results" section or the lead talking about the result. Also I think it might be notable that while the popular vote was similar the electoral vote was not which could show the flaw in the electoral college system in overstating or understating (in both of these cases the former) the victory of the winner. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fshoutofdawater (talk • contribs) 15:59, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Morris the cat candidancy

 * Is well known that Morris the cat was presented to the elections of 1988. I dont know why other users erase it constantly from the article. Is not a joke. Morris the cat was presented to the elections. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.164.52.89 (talk) 15:05, 31 December 2010 (UTC)


 * The list is for official candidates, which Morris clearly was not. Being "presented" to the elections does not qualify one as a candidate, and I'm fairly certain that only human beings are eligible to run. Besides, there is no reliable sourcing of such an event, not even in Morris' WP article.--JayJasper (talk) 16:48, 31 December 2010 (UTC)


 * That event is specified in the article Non-human electoral candidates-- Morris for president!!
 * In fact "Morris the cat "ran" as a candidate in the U.S. presidential election, 1988 and the U.S. presidential election, 1992." http://www.jiffynotes.com/a_study_guides/book_notes_add/emmc_0001_0001_0/emmc_0001_0001_0_00133.html


 * To quote from the citation you provided (italics mine): "Sufficient publicity was generated by the 'campaign' that the stunt was repeated in 1992." Note the quotation marks (in the original text) around the word "campaign" and referral to the event as a "stunt". The article you linked to also states that "Morris the cat 'ran' as a candidate in the U.S. presidential election, 1988", note the word "ran" in quotation marks to denote tongue-in-cheekness. Clearly it was a publicity ploy and not a legitimate candidacy, and does not belong in the article.--JayJasper (talk) 17:27, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Candidate lists
A search of the FEC website reveals that Don Wright, a perennial candidate from Alaska, ran for the Republican nomination in this election. Wright is best known as the president of the Alaska Federation of Natives during the passage of the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act and as a candidate for governor of Alaska in every election since 1974. Based upon past observance of FEC data, I'm guessing that over 200 people run for this office in every election cycle. Is there a "notability guideline" for inclusion in the candidate lists in this article, or just the requirement that the information is properly sourced? I was following the election pretty closely back in 1988, and don't recall hearing the Alaskan media even mentioning this candidacy. Four years earlier, however, someone in Anchorage not known politically filed for president. Television station KTUU sent a reporter and camera crew to his house to go knock on his door and ask him for an interview, out of the blue.RadioKAOS (talk) 05:04, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Current consensus holds that only candidates which have a stand-alone article (that can withstand an afd) on Wikipedia are to be listed on the main election page.--JayJasper (talk) 05:11, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
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Dukakis picture?
Is there no colour portriat picture of Dukakis available? Bomberswarm2 (talk) 04:25, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

"This election was also the last where both candidates share the same birthplace and home area, as Bush and Dukakis are both Boston-area natives (cities of Milton and Brookline, MA)."
Has this claim possibly been nullified by the fact that both Clinton and Trump were considered New Yorkers?? Or perhaps not, since Clinton was born and raised in Illinois, and only moved to New York as an adult?SecretName101 (talk) 00:05, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
 * whose claim is this? sounds like OR that is not based on a major reliable source. Rjensen (talk) 03:21, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

California and Connecticut
The summary section says: "This was the most recent election a Republican candidate won the states of California and Connecticut." The same is also true of Illinois, Maryland, Delaware, New Jersey, Vermont, and Maine. Why does it only mention CA & CT, and is this notable enough to include in the top section? Akwdb (talk) 21:57, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

Image of Benteson under "Democratic Party Ticket, 1988"
The image currently used appears to be of a much younger Lloyd Benteson than when he ran for VP. Good public domain images exist of him at a more contemporary time to this election, wouldn't it be wiser to use one of those? SecretName101 (talk) 03:44, 29 September 2019 (UTC)

Total of votes does not match the sum of the candidates
The sum of votes shown cast for Bush, Dukakis, Paul, and Fulani is 91,345,044. However, the total shown in the table is 91,594,686. A rather substantial difference of 249,642.

I also note there is no "Other" column and this could perhaps explain the difference. However, if "Other" is the difference, and the total being shown includes "Other" there should either be some noted explanation or "Other" should be added to the table. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:6E1:79E0:F00D:725A:24C4:19B3 (talk) 14:57, 24 December 2020 (UTC)