Talk:1991 European Cup final

Yugoslavia or Serbia?
This matter is getting ridiculous now. Yes, UEFA attributes Red Star's win in the 1991 European Cup Final to Serbia, but at the time Serbia did not exist as a separate nation; at least not in footballing terms. I realise that MOS:FLAG applies to flags, but the clause in it that reads "Do not rewrite history" could equally apply to text, and so we should only refer to Red Star as being a club from SFR Yugoslavia in this article. Furthermore, we don't need to specify that UEFA considers Serbia to be the successor to any Yugoslavian honours as it's actually irrelevant to this article. The only time this would need to be mentioned is probably at List of European Cup and UEFA Champions League winners. – PeeJay 00:43, 8 April 2011 (UTC)


 * "We don't need to specify that UEFA considers Serbia to be the successor to any Yugoslavian honours as it's actually irrelevant to this article". It is relevant because:

1.Yugoslavia does not exist anymore except as Serbia that inhereted its legal status in UEFA so we may reffer to it as one same thing. PLASTIC EXAMPLE: Imagine your name is John. And lets say you graduate at university and afterwards you decide to change your name to Jack. Do we have right to claim that Jack doesn`t have university degree? 2.Club is based in Serbia and was so even during Yugoslavia`s existance. It qualified for Yugoslav league through Serbian league. 3.Article itself has a note that encourages people to include additional references to improve its quality. CONCLUSION: We "do not rewrite history". Arbitrary judgements to what is relevant/irrelevant to this article hold no firm ground. - Zoran —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.203.115.59 (talk) 07:41, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, Serbia inherited Yugoslavia's international record, but in 1991 Yugoslavia still existed. That's the point I'm trying to make here. I'm not saying it's completely irrelevant, only that it has no place in this particular article. And yes, the club is based in Serbia, but in 1991 Serbia was just a part of SFR Yugoslavia and didn't have its own FIFA-affiliated football association. Finally, yes, we are encouraged to add references to source content, but not to espouse our own national agenda. – PeeJay 07:47, 8 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Current Serbian FA is renamed Yugoslav FA that is FIFA-affiliated since 1919. If you believe UEFA is espousing Serbian national agenda then there might be something fishy with your own agenda. Reference to UEFA page cannot do anything else than benefit this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.203.115.59 (talk) 07:59, 8 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Would either party object to the presence of a simple note in a Notes section saying something like "After the breakup of SFR Yugoslavia, UEFA assigned that country's football honours to the Serbian Football Association." Referenced to that UEFA page, but properly formatted and with the correct page title? cheers, Struway2 (talk) 08:05, 8 April 2011 (UTC)


 * I would not object. Thanks Struway2. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.203.115.59 (talk) 08:10, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Possibly. I don't see that the article is trying to prescribe Red Star's European Cup title to Yugoslavia, only that it is mentioning the country that they were representing in that season's competition. The fate of the Yugoslav FA after 1991 is not relevant, IMO. – PeeJay 13:35, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

I agree that there is and should be no political aspect to this article. Yugoslavia is the historically-accurate name of the country whose football association was being represented by Red Star in 1991, and that's why it's mentioned, and the fate of the Yugoslav FA after 1991 isn't desperately relevant per se. Though I don't think it would do any harm to mention that the club now represents Serbia.

However, I just fixed the dead external link to the 1990–91 season at the UEFA website, and in the live link, UEFA refers to the club as Crvena zvezda, despite Red Star is the English common name. Given the potential for confusion for the non-expert reader – that the official body for the competition refers to the club by a different name from the one used in this article – I think we actually do need a note to clarify.

How about "UEFA conventionally refers to Red Star Belgrade by the club's Serbian-language name, Crvena zvezda. Since the breakup of SFR Yugoslavia, the club competes under the auspices of its successor Serbian Football Association." referenced to both what is currently the UEFA external link, and to the UEFA Serbia honours page. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 15:16, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Sounds fair enough. – PeeJay 16:21, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

That text is now in a Notes section in the article. Thanks to both for getting this sorted. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 07:31, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

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Move discussion in progress
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