Talk:2. Bundesliga

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Dead link
During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!


 * http://www.dfb.de/bliga/bundes/index.html
 * In German football league system on 2011-03-19 23:06:30, 404 Not Found
 * In German football league system on 2011-03-22 04:38:00, 404 Not Found
 * In 2. Fußball-Bundesliga on 2011-05-25 06:56:13, 404 Not Found
 * In 2. Fußball-Bundesliga on 2011-06-10 04:46:23, 404 Not Found

--JeffGBot (talk) 04:46, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Dead link 2
During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!


 * http://www.bundesliga.de/statistik/liga2/
 * In 2. Fußball-Bundesliga on 2011-05-25 06:56:10, 404 Not Found
 * In 2. Fußball-Bundesliga on 2011-06-10 04:46:36, 404 Not Found

--JeffGBot (talk) 04:46, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Confederation
Why UEFA? The Confederation ist the DFL (Deutsche Fußball-Liga). — Preceding unsigned comment added by SamWinchester000 (talk • contribs) 15:48, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Not moved. to proposed title, without prejudice to other possible titles. Red Slash 19:10, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Disputed move.

2. Fußball-Bundesliga → Bundesliga 2 – per WP:UE. The word 'fußball' isn't English and in any event is redundant; We don't usually employ ordinals, least of all when it follows a German convention 2 followed by a full stop. The official site (in English) seems to refer to it as Bundesliga2 or Bundesliga 2. See ongoing discussion at Talk:Fußball-Bundesliga  Ohconfucius  ping / poke 16:08, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.


 * Oppose - There are far too many leagues called 'Bundesliga', no evidence this is WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. GiantSnowman 12:30, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose per Fußball-Bundesliga and GiantSnowman's rationale. – PeeJay 13:22, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Based on nothing more than my own meandering experience, "2. Bundesliga" is the most commonly-used form of the name. "Bundesliga 2", though used on the official site, is not an Anglicisation I've encountered elsewhere. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 14:00, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose - To many Second Bundesligas in German sports, disambiguation is definetly needed. Calistemon (talk) 07:54, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
 * ''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Discussion

 * Any additional comments:


 * Comment - We should await the result of the RM of Fußball-Bundesliga before discussing this one. For consistency, this article should not be moved if Fußball-Bundesliga isn't moved, while it should be moved to 2. Bundesliga if the other article is moved to Bundesliga. Mentoz86 (talk) 11:37, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Agreed. – PeeJay 13:22, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
 * It's reasonable to wait, per the above rationale. The "2." is definitely not ENglish. It is the German convention for denoting the ordinal number 2, so it means 'second'. Whilst I don't have a problem with it being referred to as "Second Bundesliga", I feel "2. Bundesliga" is only marginally less NOTENGLISH than "2. Fußball-Bundesliga" for the reason given. --  Ohconfucius  ping / poke 14:45, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I believe you have misunderstood WP:UE, the question is not whether a article-title is English or not, but if it is used by English sources. "La Liga" is definitely not English, but we wouldn't translate that title to "The League", as the Spanish name is what English sources use. And if we should have another name for this article, or only option is 2. Bundesliga. Mentoz86 (talk) 18:30, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
 * A number of other options come to mind should a less German name for the article be desired, like Second Bundesliga (association football), 2nd Bundesliga (association football) or, less ideal 2nd Fußball-Bundesliga. Calistemon (talk) 07:54, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Moved to clearer title
After an easy RMnac of the move request, I unilaterally and boldly moved this article to Second Bundesliga (German association football) pending future moves to better possible titles. In the meantime, this title is English and perfectly clear. Red Slash 19:13, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm a bit baffled here, wasn't every vote opposed to the move? And what about the Category:2. Fußball-Bundesliga and all the associated articles there that still have the 2. Fußball-Bundesliga in the tile? Calistemon (talk) 22:56, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
 * While the NAC in itself is appropriate, I find it largely inappropriate that you've moved the article to a title that hasn't even been mentioned in the discussion, and I think the move should be reverted. If you have a personal opinion in a discussion, you shouldn't close the discussion, but rather propose your preferred title in the discussion. I've posted a post on WT:FOOTY, to have an uninvolved admin review both the NAC and the page-move. Mentoz86 (talk) 09:03, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

I've undone the move. While I did comment above, I think it's plainly obvious that the novel way that this was closed isn't in line with the discussion. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 10:11, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
 * One of the most bizarre NAC/page moves I've ever seen, good work undoing it. GiantSnowman 10:34, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Worse still...
Now Fußball-Bundesliga has been moved to Bundesliga (men), we have a totally corrupt bunch of article names. Perhaps another move request should be posted so we can try to make these names more consistent? The Rambling Man (talk) 18:13, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Requested move (May 2013)

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Moved to 2. Bundesliga to harmonize with the result of the 3. Liga move discussion, and after studying the comments here. It appears that some editors are unhappy with the rather Germanic and hard-to-type Fußball and that could be their main reason to want the name changed. Everyone wanted this league referred to as the '2nd league' in some fashion but there was less unanimity in how to specify this. EdJohnston (talk) 03:33, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

2. Fußball-Bundesliga → Bundesliga 2 or 2nd Bundesliga or Bundesliga (second division) – Now that Fußball-Bundesliga has been moved to 'Bundesliga' upon recognition that the title was neither in English nor was the common name, the time is ripe to do the same for the same rationale.  Ohc  ¡digame!¿que pasa? 09:27, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.


 * Support move to 2. Bundesliga as correct format. GiantSnowman 12:16, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
 * The "2." is German convention for "2nd" and should be avoid in favour of either 'Bundesliga 2', 'Bundesliga 2nd division' or '2nd Bundesliga'. --  Ohc  ¡digame!¿que pasa? 16:43, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
 * This is awkward. I guess our analogy in the UK would be to call this League 2, or Bundesliga 2. How is commonly referred to (if at all) in English-language sources? The Rambling Man (talk) 16:56, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
 * The official site (in English) seems to refer to it as Bundesliga2 or Bundesliga 2, hence the suggestion. --  Ohc  ¡digame!¿que pasa? 12:46, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
 * ESPN refers to it as "Bundesliga 2", as does Australian Broadcasting Corp and the BBC and Goal.com. Soccerway and Worldfootball.net use "2. Bundesliga". None of them use "Fußball-". Take your pick. --  Ohc  ¡digame!¿que pasa? 10:02, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose - as I would oppose any suggestions to move an article to a made-up English name. If you don't like non-English words, you should translate "Bundesliga" to nation-wide league aswell. I think the football-league is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC of 2. Bundesliga, so I'd support a move to to 2. Bundesliga, as it is the most used name in English sources, and is consistent with the recent move from Fußball-Bundesliga to Bundesliga. Mentoz86 (talk) 09:30, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose – Kingjeff (talk) 06:58, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose what? The nominator's proposal or GiantSnowman's proposal? And do you have any policy-based arguments for why you think this article should be named 2. Fußball-Bundesliga? Mentoz86 (talk) 10:42, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Support Bundesliga 2, which seems to be the most common name used in reliable, English-language sources. --BDD (talk) 20:14, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Any additional comments:
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.