Talk:2001 Belgian Grand Prix

Did not start
More than two laps were completed before Burti crashed, which normally means the race is restarted on aggregate - why did that not happen this time? And why are drivers who completed racing laps before Burti's crash recorded as Did Not Start?--MartinUK (talk) 22:39, 16 April 2009 (UTC)


 * See Article 158, Case B here then. The original distance was 44 laps, and with 5 laps covered: 44-5-3 = 36 laps. They are recorded as Did Not Start, as they didn't start the second race. Cs-wolves  (talk)  00:35, 17 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't think it's correct to call it a DNS - it is a retirement, as Raikkonen/Alonso/Burti/Irvine all started the originally scheduled race distance. I think it's a function of the odd way in which race-stoppages were dealt with at the time, where they completely ignored the first part of the race other than to provide a grid line-up. The current system, where the race is restarted with the completed distance counted, is better. Mbdxecw2 (talk) 23:22, 3 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Räikkönen, Irvine, Burti and Alonso's results as recorded in this article have swapped between "Ret" and "DNS" several times. They were most recently changed to "DNS" back in 2017. For the time being, I've changed them back to "Ret", for consistency with the related articles (i.e. 2001 Formula One World Championship, Eddie Irvine, Fernando Alonso, etc) but I'm happy to have a discussion about whether they should be "Ret" or "DNS". As documented at WikiProject Formula One/Disputed results:
 * FORIX (subscription site) lists them as "Not started"
 * grandprix.com and ChicaneF1 list them as "Ret", and
 * formula1.com and fia.com omit them altogether (which suggests to me that they consider them to have not started the race)
 * DH85868993 (talk) 08:36, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Please leave them as DNS. We do not document results as we think they should have been. We document results as the officials with the authority of crediting the results did credit them. In this case, the table is supported by an FIA source (#4 The official FIA Lap Chart of the race) which very cleary states that the first part of the race was declared null and void. The contested drivers quite patently Did Not Start the only scored race. That the current system is better is simply irrelevant. The system in use at the time of the race is what matters and we reflect the results credited by the FIA themselves following that system.Tvx1 16:18, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I have updated the drivers' and constructors' articles accordingly.Tvx1 17:00, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I've updated the car articles and List of Formula One driver records and List of Formula One drivers. So I think it now says/reflects DNS everywhere. DH85868993 (talk) 20:09, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

"Nullified race"
My view is that unlike first-lap restarts in that era, which are completely null and void, because the race order decided the grid for the restart then there has been an element of it that is carried forward, and therefore cannot be considered fully "nullified". So I was attempting to change the wording to something less contentious, as I did a few months ago for one of the headings (from "nullified race" to "first start"). It's important for me a distinction is made between that and first-lappers. But would be interested to hear 's take. Spa-Franks (talk) 21:35, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
 * That's a fair point about the race order deciding the grid for the restart. How about something like this: "[According to series regulations,] the results of the first start were declared void, with the restart to be considered as the entire race. The starting order for the restart was determined from the finishing order of the first four laps, with a revised distance of 36 laps and a reduced field of 18 cars." Feel free to tweak the wording. DH85868993 (talk) 22:29, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Have gone for "According to series regulations, the first four laps were not counted towards the restarted race, the only retained element being the order the cars were in after the end of lap four,[ref] revising the distance to 36 laps and reducing the field to 18 cars.[ref]" Spa-Franks (talk) 23:13, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
 * That sounds great. DH85868993 (talk) 00:22, 3 December 2020 (UTC)