Talk:2006 Australian football code crowds

Hey Remy - nice work you've done with the intro text and some of the formatting.

I was thinking of finding A-League crowds and perhaps Australian Super 14 crowds to add to the various football leagues. The new title, whilst good for what's currently up there, wouldn't allow the addition of these figures. It's a moot point until I can find figures though. Mike2680 14:44, 24 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Hey your last edit was to blank the above... I dont know why you would do that so I've put it back. If you want to add more codes then I'm not sure what article name we could use. It's very hard to make sure its not confusing with the AFL. Maybe Football code crowds in Australia, 2006? Remy B 15:30, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Is this article for the purposes of comparison between the two codes? It should include all football codes, so yes that title sounds better.  R o  gerthat  Talk  01:57, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I was just reading this article and wondered if A-League crowds would be appropriate to add. Seems as though there is agreement. I agree, "Football code crowds in Australia, 2006" or similar would be a good title.

I wondered whether the A-League 2005-06 season games should go in the 2005 or the 2006 article? Last season started in August 2005, and the Grand final was 5 March 2006, so the 2005 article sounds best. So far as a source of figures go - check http://www.a-league.com.au/default.aspx?s=fixtureresults&seasonid=2&roundid=-2 and use the "match summary" links next to each game. -- Chuq 04:51, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Rename ?
I propose this page be Crowds for AFL and NRL clubs. It is, afterall, about the individual clubs, rather than the leagues themselves. I gather this page is to draw comparisons between AFL and NRL specifically ? Also the table does not indicate if these crowds are for home matches only, or if they include away matches they play in. Also, does it include matches that are not traditional home games. For example if Hawthorn play a home game in Launceston, or Melbourne play in Brisbane does this in turn reduce the overall average. And is it intended to also include finals matches or just home & away. --Rulesfan 04:31, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The table gives information regarding the venue, and the averages reflect all tabled crowds - but your point is well made regarding the title. It was initially titled for all football codes, but seeing as nobody has found Super 14 crowds and the A-League is yet to start, someone renamed it AFL and NRL crowds.

2005?
Is there anyone willing to start a similar article for 2005? I want to add the A-League crowds for last season but it would look silly not having the AFL and NRL ones first, as most of the larger ones will be AFL/NRL. -- Chuq 23:25, 10 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Sounds good Chuq - i'll start the article before next weekend, or if you want to start it I can add the NRL and AFL figures to it later. Mike2680 07:41, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

I have created 2005 Australian football code crowds. I've left the AFL and NRL teams rows blank, but have sorted them as if they were at the same levels as this year. Please fill with AFL and NRL stats! -- Chuq 08:28, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Rugby crowds
For the record the 2006 Super 14 season averages for Australian teams were: Individual game crowds are at the season page if any users ever wish to include the stats of S14, and I guess A-League as well.
 * Western Force - 28,384
 * Waratahs - 25,653
 * Reds - 21, 357
 * Brumbies - 17,830

Home and Away
What is the point of including both home and away crowds? I don't see how including away crowds for each team contributes to the article. In my opinion, they should only include home crowds for each particular team. Pcpp 13:01, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Isn't the away crowd for one team the home crowd of another? I was under the impression that only home crowds count towards a teams official "home crowd" record.  (eg. Collingwood v Sydney at MCG counts to Collingwoods stats, C'wood v Syd at Telstra Stadium counts towards Sydney's stats.)  Are you referring to the "number of games" column? -- Chuq 06:56, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
 * No, what I mean is that I don't really see the point of including the away crowds for a team in the "total crowds" column. I don't think that including the crowds for both Home and Away games have any usefulness at all - the "total crowds" section should really only include home crowds. Pcpp 12:58, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
 * A good example now would be the double standards between the NRL/AFL and A-League. Only home crowds are included for the A-L while both home and away crowds are included for the NRL/AFL. If Home and Away Crowds were included for the A-League as well, for example, Perth Glory should have 20,606 as it's total/average crowd.Pcpp 14:36, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
 * If that's the case, then yes the NRL and AFL figures should be recalculated to only include home games for each team. I'm not sure how their official match reports do it, but I think the "home games only" makes more sense.  However, if that is how AFL and NRL do it, then we will need to reconsider how we display it. -- Chuq 15:29, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I've changed it to only have the home crowd averages. Feel free to revert if the old way was better. Mike2680 13:18, 27 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Whichever is decided, home games or all games, I don't mind whichever is consistent. But now we have the situation where the 'Total' column is all games, and the 'Average' is only home games, which is even more confusing.  Do we need 4 columns (total home, total all, average home, average all) ?  And if we didn't that, which column do we sort by? -- Chuq 02:23, 28 August 2006 (UTC)


 * It needs to be just home games, otherwise it is totally pointless. Including home and away gives zero indication of how much crowd support each team has. Cvene64 11:59, 31 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Not necessarily. For example Kangaroos (who draw low crowds) may host a game at the MCG to Collingwood. The crowd may be something like 60,000, but that in no way says Kangaroos have a high attendance. I think both home and away matches for each club should be taken into account as it does indicate how much interest there is in the team (for example the big Sydney vs. Collingwood game every mid-year), also in the AFL as ground sharing is rife with 10 teams in Victoria sharing 2 grounds (Geelong included who don't play the big drawing games at Skilled Stadium). Jabso 08:25, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

i think four colomns is a good idea, i think away crowds to tell us about support, but what are the columns currently based on? sss333 01:37, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

NZ Crowds
I have a nasty feeling the New Zealand Knights aren't going to supply crowd figures as per usual unlike all their Australian counterparts. This also happened with the Super 14 teams. Would it be worth scrapping the NZ clubs in light of the title and inconsistency in getting figures?Mike2680 13:16, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
 * NZ Knights A-League crowd is available from here. NZ Warriors are as easily available as the others in the NRL. In my opinion, Super 14 crowds really shouldn't be included in here. Super 14 isn't a competition like the NRL, AFL and A-L, it only lasts around half the time of the NRL, AFL and A-L. Plus it's not really an Australian competition either. Pcpp 13:25, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The Super 14 is the top level of club/provincial/team rugby in Australia. There is no reason not to include it. Just because it has more international teams than the NRL/A-League is not a justification for excluding it from football code crowds. Cheers. Cvene64 11:57, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Super 14 isn't going to work with the current system of sorting right now if you include SA and NZ sides. Since the current system involves total Home AND away crowds, would you include South African and New Zealand away crowds in the total? I don't think so. Pcpp 12:57, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
 * It'd be better if it was just home crowds like someone said before. The stats get skewed when very popular teams play at venues that garner hardly any following, and vice versa - Like Melbourne Victory's crowd of 40k doesn't really say much about Sydney FC Mike2680 11:06, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Finals
I'm going to ask this one before the AFL finals start - are they being included, or is this solely regular season games? I have only included season games in the 2005 article. If the finals are to be listed I think they should go in separate sections. -- Chuq 21:45, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't think finals should be used in calculating team averages - Every NRL finals match after the first week is played in Sydney, and you'd get the 'home team' hosting the Grand Final being allocated that crowd. Pages like sports attendance employ both H&A and finals attendances in calculating overall averages for the league, which is fair enough. It'd be good to have the finals included in the list of crowds by game. Mike2680 13:36, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

National Teams
I think that the Wallaby, Kangaroo and Socceroo games in Aust should be included the list. It would show how well supported the AFL club games are in Aust and the title isn't 2006 Aust football code club crowds. If you do past years, then the IR games should be included too. The-Pope 15:09, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
 * It's more a provincial (non-representative) analysis of our sporting codes, and is in line with articles such as Sports_attendances. The original title of the article was "Australian League football crowds" or something like that, but it sounded too much like an abbreviation for AFL. The name change is amenable to including representative fixtures, and I spose one could do a separate box for representative competitions between national teams, including world cup games played here, International Rules series, Tri nations and international soccer friendlies etc. Domestic representative sides would also include State of Origin matches and City v Country games in rugby league. Mike2680 00:25, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Graph
The graph at the bottom of the page isn't explained very well. Could the person who made it please explain it a little better in the caption? Some labeling of the x and y axis may help also. Mitch119 03:57, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Sure thing Mitch, after my exams are over i'll really fix up that graph. In the quick one I whipped up I didn't know how to insert axes labels using the new excel 2007. Basically the x-axis is the crowd size in '000s and the y axis is frequency.. but yep, it'll be cool once I get time to do it properly. Mike2680 09:36, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

New Zealand Warriors?
Why are the New Zealand Warriors and all their home games at Ericson listed here? Surely they should not count because they're not being played in Australia. If the warriors are to be on this list then one could say so do the NZ and SA teams in the Super 14. Mitch119 03:42, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I presume the NZ Warriors are the Rugby league team. I would guess they would be included because the league they are playing is a predominantly Australian league - similar to NZ Knights in the A-League.  Super 14 is an international club competition, the majority of clubs are outside Australia (in fact no country can claim a "majority").  I would propose than when the national rugby union competition starts, those figures be included here instead of S14. -- Chuq 06:06, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Gotcha. Fair enough. Mitch119 14:34, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Chuq, I don't know about replacing the S14 with the new national comp. Including the national comp sides in as well is a good idea, but the S14 is the main club/team/franchise competition in Australia for rugby union, just because it has SA and NZ teams, it should not be excluded. Cheers. Cvene64 04:54, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Colours in the Tables
In the first two tables the NRL teams are blue but in the third table they are grey. All other football codes keep the same colours in all three tables. Maybe someone should fix this?

Title change and expansion of coverage?
Excellent page you've put together here. A real gem for measuring the domestic health of the 4 codes.

Perhaps a title of Australian domestic football codes crowds would be a goer?

Australian Rules Football's obvious flaw of being domestically overweight and internationally underweight tends to skew perceptions somewhat. Perhaps the real level of support enjoyed by each code could be better established by 2 sets of tables - 1 for domestic competitions, 1 for international???? Then all domestic and international matches played on Australian soil involving Australian teams at club and national levels will be covered.

TV ratings is another story, I guess.

The domestic table:

AFL ; NRL (incl. State of Origin) ; A-League ; Rugby Union National Competition (2007- )

The international table:

Football (soccer): AFC Champions League ; AFC Asian Cup (qualifiers and Cup tournament (if Australia hosts it)) ; FIFA World Cup (qualifiers and Cup tournament (if Australia hosts it)) ; International friendlies

Union: Super 14 ; IRB sevens ; Tri nations ; World Cup (when Australia next hosts it)

League: ANZAC test ; Tri-nations ; World Cup (2008)

Away supporters
Should this indicate that the football crowds are mostly home supporters and that Aussie Rules crowds are made up of large numbers of both team's supporters because most of the teams are in one city, so there's no instate travel cost involved. --202.47.51.5 18:27, 20 February 2007 (UTC)