Talk:2006 Pacific typhoon season/Archive 3

Typhoon Xangsane
I was fed up with an important and in the news storm not having an article. If you have to now kill me for my horrible actions, please do it on Talk:Typhoon Xangsane (2006), a stub article i created to encourage the editors of this project to actually get round to making an article for Xangsane instead of arguing over whether Daniel and Helene should have articles. (sorry if anyone finds this incivil, im not very good at politeness)  Jamie | C 16:05, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
 * User:Coredesat/Typhoon Xangsane (2006). It's best to start it from there. As we've seen with many storms, it's easier to work from userspace before moving it. – Chacor 16:16, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I still think we should have like a supplement article, if you will, until the main one is finished, as it is in the news, so people are going to want to know about it, and are not going to want to be redirected to a long page with lots of information they dont want.  Jamie | C 16:33, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Thing is, right now there's still reports coming in. Anyone who searches for Xangsane would still get the information they need re. deaths and damage in the article. It's only easy to write WPac articles with info, which is something we are lacking regarding preparations and aftermath (we only had bits and pieces of impact info). – Chacor 16:40, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

PAGASA name redirects
When I create articles for WPAC storms that PAGASA has assigned names to, I generally make redirects using those names (example, Typhoon Florita (2006) redirects to Tropical Storm Bilis (2006)). I think this is generally a good idea, since the PAGASA names are valid search terms, and redirects are cheap. Any objections to this? --Core des at (talk) 18:43, 9 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Support. :) This is especially useful for when Philippine storms when the PAGASA name is used almost as much as the regular name (like Xangsane and Milyeno). Hurricanehink ( talk ) 18:50, 9 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Support per Coredesat & Hurricanehink. With Filipino news sources, they give the PAGASA name, and then "(international: )". Useful for users from the Philippines, who would remember the PAGASA name. - SpLoT 07:37, 10 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Support, with call to help me with PAGASA disambiguation pages! I've already done most of last year's (e.g. Typhoon Maring), but they need expansion. – Chacor 07:42, 10 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Support the redirecting of yearly PAGASA cyclone pages and support PAGASA disambiguous pages. Jake52 My talk 12:47, 12 October 2006 (UTC)


 * In that case, I did Tropical Storm Juan a few days ago. It's one of the more complicated dab pages, since Juan was a hurricane twice, as well. Core des at 06:54, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Recent timeline of events
Just to inform all of my fellow editors of this page, I have implemented a one-week rule such that the recent timeline of events can be kept short and, well, recent. This means that any content on the recent timeline of events more than one week old will be removed, since the main article Timeline of the 2006 Pacific typhoon season serves the purpose of collating the timeline it its entirety. If there is no activity in the basin within the last week, please put in: ":*There has been no tropical cyclone activity in the Western North Pacific basin in the past week."

I would like to take this opportunity to also remind all to also update the main page when editing the section in this article to eliminate any disparity between the two. Feel free to comment on this new style. Thanks and cheers. - SpLoT 15:50, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I think, if there's been previous acitivty, but not within the last week, we retain one weeks' worth of events up to the final event. There's also no need tor such a statement when it's early on in the season and there's been no activity at all yet. – Chacor 15:59, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm fine with the current one month that remains in the timelines. However, I wouldn't mind one week. Either way...doesn't matter to me. bob rulz 02:31, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Ok, let's take Chacor's suggestion. Retain one week's worth before the final event. - SpLoT 03:17, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Button bar?
With an increasing number of articles from the season in the West Pacific, should a button bar be created? It may need to be numbered as there is no real alphabetical system in the WPac. CrazyC83 03:41, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
 * We could do a numbered bar using the JMA numbering (just drop the 06 at the beginning). My objection was always the fact that the names were not alphabetical, but numbers work. —Cuivi é nen 03:47, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Here's a sample, just up to Bopha (Inday). —Cuivi é nen 03:58, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Nice. One little thing; the Saffir-Simpson scale thing should be changed to include severe storms. And is it 10 minute sustained winds, or 1 minute? Hurricanehink ( talk ) 04:10, 31 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Oppose for now. What about JTWC storms? 17W, for example. Plus, we should not use the SSHS for any button bar for the PTS. That is one thing I feel very strongly about. – Chacor 04:32, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
 * well the JWTC storm would be the JMA tropical depression and not numbered, their value would be TD. -- グリフオーザー 04:53, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
 * That is not feasible because we don't track JMA depressions. – Chacor 08:07, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Just curious, why don't we track JMA TDs? I think we should. íslenskur fel lib ylur #12 (samtal) 01:09, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, we could use a new color scheme for TS-STS-Typhoon and then do button bars using 10-minute winds. OTOH, I don't see a particular problem with using JTWC data for the SSHS. —Cuivi é nen 17:15, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Here's an example of the above proposal; it still needs the SSHS replaced. The colors are kind of ugly; maybe we should take this opportunity to improve our TS-STS-Typhoon color scheme. —Cuivi é nen 17:19, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Eww. Can we try making one for super typhoons?Mitchazenia V5.0 19:55, 31 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Super typhoons require the Saffir-Simpson scale though, as they use JTWC numbers... CrazyC83 20:28, 31 October 2006 (UTC)


 * The one on top is better than the 2nd. SS Scale or not.Mitchazenia V5.0 20:39, 31 October 2006 (UTC)


 * That's why I suggested rethinking our STS and Typhoon colors. For example: Tropical Storm, Severe Tropical Storm , Typhoon might work as a color scale for the WPac. —Cuivi é nen 20:45, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't see why we should use numbers. The best solution may be the first TWO letters of the name of the storm. As for the colours, I have no real objection to using SSHS, but we really need to get tropical cyclone scales organized. STS should be kept static (its a very good intermediate between TS and cat 1 - but TY is ugly if we go down that road).--Nilfanion (talk) 20:49, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Not feasible; the next name is "Chebi" (0601: Chanchu). – Chacor 06:32, 1 November 2006 (UTC)


 * STS is fine but whats is the template for the typhoon color? I might have one.Mitchazenia V5.0 21:37, 31 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I think the tropical storm color should be in blue-green color and have the STS been in pale green or pale yellow. The tpyhoon section should be in orange or red. &mdash; Alastor Moody (T + C + U) 03:39, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * And also take out the Saffir-Simpson hurricane scale and simply but in three categorizes: TS, STS, and TY. Also, I think you should exclude the Category 1 - 5 scale and not show any category strength. &mdash; Alastor Moody (T + C + U) 03:45, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Here are two button bars, one with the TD/TS/STS/TY colors, the other using the SSHS:

CrazyC83 23:49, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Strongly oppose usage of JTWC numbers. – Chacor 01:31, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
 * They have been revised to show the JMA numbers and (xxW*) to identify JTWC depressions or storms (or PAGASA letters if there is one). CrazyC83 02:26, 12 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I think you should remove all TDs and recommend that you use the JTWC numbers. Cuz the storm names cane be very confusing as they don't go in alphabetical order like what the NHC does and can have similar names like Chanchu and Chebi; plus there's no room. Also, For all category typhoon strengths, just use that one brownish-yellow color to keep things simple until we find a better solution for later. And for the two TS that the JMA hasn't officialy named, just put in that * sign any for any other tropical storms that the JTWC found and the JMA hasn't. &mdash; Alastor Moody (T + C + U) 06:33, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

I'd rather work out a new typhoon color, then use the JMA numbers. It would be simpler, and none of the non-JMA storms have articles. --Core des at 06:36, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
 * You could be right about the JMA numbers so I'll leave that, but I still disagree for the typhoons that we should use that one browinsh-yellow color for all typhoons (regardless of their category strength). But if it is the color that is making you feel sick in the stomach, report to me about it. &mdash; Alastor Moody (T + C + U) 07:24, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Just to restart this, we need to decide on several factors about this button bar. -  SpL o T  (*T* C+u+g+v) 15:18, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) Should we even have a button bar?
 * 2) Do we include only named storms or JTWC TS as well?
 * 3) Do we use JTWC numbers or JMA numbers or letters?
 * 4) Do we use SSHS or JMA classification?
 * 5) Do we change the colouring scheme?

-  SpL o T  (*T* C+u+g+v) 15:22, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) Definitely, since it keeps things organized.
 * 2) Only named storms, since JTWC storms have only minor damages, and are nearly always on the season page only.
 * 3) JMA numbers due to reasons cited above.
 * 4) Official JMA 10-min wind measurements, therefore JMA's TS-STS-TY classification.
 * 5) Please change the colours; the typhoon one does look like vomit/excrement.


 * If you're gonna have a button bar, include all storms. However, use JMA identifiers where there is one. Change the key from SSHS small to a JMA version. Colours: The typhoon colour has always been a placeholder. No changes should be made to TS (which is standard, samee colour as Atlantic or EPac) or STS (a nice balance which we agreed on) colours. IMO, it's not worth having a button bar for typhoon seasons due to the confusion with numbers, names etc. All it saves is one click at most - for example, right now, to get from Xangsane to Chanchu is one click - there's a link to Chanchu in Xangsane's prose. From Ioke to Xangsane is two clicks - just one to the seasonal article, and another to Xangsane. It's not worth it. – Chacor 15:39, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Here's an attempt at a compromise button bar, if a button bar is really needed, please shrink the size - it's too large vertically. I still don't see the need for one though. – Chacor 16:14, 24 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Like Chacor said, it doesn't really matter. It saves one click, not that useful. I've never really seen the use for a button bar, and given the complexity of the WPAC seasons there's probably no need to have one. If you really wanted to have one... make it as simple as possible using JMA numbers with mentions of unofficial storms, and similar colors to the rest of the wikiproject - same TD and TS, use STS, and I personally think we should use the Saffir-Simpson colors. I know they're not used in the WPAC, but if we do have a button bar it would be helpful in differentiating the many typhoons. Hurricanehink ( talk ) 15:59, 24 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I like your new button bar. CrazyC83 17:00, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I like it, too. I've created a new typhoon color; if you don't like it, feel free to change it at Template:Storm colour. —Cuivi é nen 17:29, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, that's pretty good, though I'm not a big fan of the color for typhoons. Hurricanehink ( talk ) 18:47, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry to revert it back, but I think last year during our discussion over colours for the SSHS we agreed no purple. – Chacor 01:19, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

(indent reset) Could you provide a link here in the talk page? platyfish625 16:18, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Storm articles
Shouldn't someone be writing articles for Typhoons Yagi and Cimaron? They were both Category 5's and should contain information from the JMA and other places. &mdash; Alastor Moody (T + C + U) 07:20, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yagi did not threaten land, there is no impact/preparation information on it. All we'd have is storm history, which fits perfectly well in the seasonal article. Cimaron has a lack of information due to lack of damage. – Chacor 08:37, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
 * There's plenty of info about it on wikinews. íslenskur fel lib ylur #12 (samtal) 18:54, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, but Wikinews ≠ Wikipedia. – Chacor 00:55, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, but the newsarticle has sources, and we just use those. íslenskur fel lib ylur #12 (samtal) 21:50, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
 * You completely missed my point there, Icelandic. What is newsworthy may not necessarily be encyclopedic. – Chacor 00:54, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yagi definitely doesn't deserve an article since it didn't even go near land. Cimaron's article is sandbox which still can be developed. -  SpLoT  / (talk) 12:26, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Kaemi second paragraph
I removed the second paragraph of the Kaemi blurb as POV. It stated that PAGASA changed its local name from Gloria to Glenda "out of protocol". The problem here is that Gloria was retired in 2002, and nowhere in the source does not say that PAGASA changed the name because it happened to be the president's first name. The article notes that an opposition party secretary made the remark. --Core desat 09:21, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Retirement
Any word on what names that are being retired?Mitchazenia (8300+edits) 18:44, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I'd wait for a decision to be made by ESCAP/WMO Typhoon Committee. It's probably happen sometime next year. For more details, see the WMO's webpage. Miss Madeline | Talk to Madeline 00:05, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, the typhoon committee just finished a meeting on the 9th, but no announcement has been made yet. Retirement of names was part of the agenda, apparently. --Core desat  00:59, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Names are retired for odd reasons in the WPac. Matsa was retired last year for no apparent reason at all. —Cuivi é nen 13:56, 11 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Matsa was not too strong but the recurving storm threatened Beijing and CMA put a lot of emphasis on it last year (even more than Bilis, Saomai this year). Finally, it moved accross the Bohai without known damage. As Beijing experienced little effect, CMA was blamed at that time. I think this is notable enough for the Chinese.Momoko 06:47, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

The 2006 meeting (4 - 9 December in Manila) handled storms from October 2005 through October 2006 (meaning Durian will only be up for discussion next year). – Chacor 14:05, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Apparently they made an exception. Names retired: “珍珠”、“碧利斯”、“桑美”、“象神”、“榴莲” - Typhoon Chanchu, Tropical Storm Bilis (which raises a question - should it be Severe Tropical Storm Bilis?), Typhoon Saomai, Typhoon Xangsane, Typhoon Durian. – Chacor 09:54, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
 * All the storms except Durian have been moved. Bilis was moved to Tropical Storm Bilis (given that in the SHEM we name the storms "Cyclone XXXX" rather than, say, "Severe Tropical Cyclone XXXX"). --Core desat  11:03, 13 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I relinked all of the of the articles so everything's complete.Mitchazenia (8300+edits) 17:01, 13 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Should Durian be published now as a stub, and worked on from there, since it would be a Stub-Mid (or Stub-High)? CrazyC83 04:33, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
 * It would probably warrant high importance, but let's hold off on publishing it now until there's something in preparations or impact. --Core desat  12:24, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Also, when does PAGASA announce their retirements? CrazyC83 04:36, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

El Nino
Would be nice if we could mention el nino since it affects the season. __earth (Talk) 13:06, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Given that this season, to date, is still actually more inactive than last season, I don't think it made a difference in the season. If it did I think the JMA or some other agency would point that out in their notes submitted to the 39th annual session of the ESCAP/WMO Typhoon Committee. We'll know (and will be able to cite it if that's the case) when all the documents from the 39th session are available. – Chacor 13:47, 12 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm unsure which way does El Nino affect he Pacific typhoon but in the Atlantic, it has been attributed to weaker hurricane season. __earth (Talk) 14:00, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Weaker Atlantic, stronger East Pacific. West Pacific is supposedly somewhat strengthened as well, but not this year. —Cuivi é nen 18:35, 12 December 2006 (UTC)