Talk:2006 Ryder Cup

Updating
There's not a lot of point updating the scores whilst in play. Wikipedia isn't an up-to-the minute sports service. Surely an update once per day (at most) is enough? MikesPlant 16:41, 22 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't think it does any harm, provided that uncompleted matches are marked as such; if someone wants to sit at their computer updating Wikipedia whilst watching the golf, let them... Js farrar 10:43, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree it shouldn't be minute by minute thing. But play lasts about 4 or 5 hours in which time a lot people are going view this article so there needs to by some sort of latest score update.Buc 10:01, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Sequence of events on the final day
As broadcast live by BBC Radio Five Live:

Start of play: 10-6; Montgomerie dormie: 10.5-6; Cink dormie: 10.5-6.5; Cink wins: 10.5-7; Casey dormie: 11-7; Montgomerie wins: 11.5-7; Woods wins: 11.5-8; Casey wins: 12-8; Stenson dormie: 12.5-8; Clarke dormie: 13-8; Howell wins: 14-8; Donald wins: 15-8; Stenson wins: 16-8; Verplank dormie: 16-8.5; McGinley halves match with Henry: 16.5-9; Verplank wins: 16.5-9.5; Olazabal dormie: 17-9.5; Westwood dormie: 17.5-9.5; Olazabal wins: 18-9.5; Westwood wins: 18.5-9.5 Js farrar 15:52, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Indeed, if you look at http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/golf/5375176.stm, which is in reverse order, there is a discrepancy that hasn't been picked up, which has caused the confusion. It says "EUROPE WIN: Europe are certain to retain the Ryder Cup because David Howell has win his match 5&4 and two other matches are currently dormie in Europe's favour.", followed by "EUROPE WIN: Chad Campbell visits the water and Luke Donald sinks a five footer to win his match by 2&1 and thereby retains the Ryder Cup for Europe." - but Howell has already retained the Cup, so Donald wins it. Js farrar 15:51, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

If you want to argue, here you go
Just for the record guys, Henrik Stenson made the winning putt, not Luke Donald. Shuyin05 15:51, 24 September (UTC)

And Luke Donald made the putt to ensure Europe retained the trophey, not Howell.

There's no point saying "just for the record" without evidence (in an unsigned post, no less). See the order of events above, and Stenson's BBC interview confirming that Donald won the Cup. Js farrar 16:03, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

You want evidence? fine, how about the official freakin Ryder Cup website? http://www.rydercup.com/2006/europe/news/final1.html First Paragraph. - Shuyin05


 * They're wrong - they're not counting the dormie half-points. See above. Js farrar 16:08, 24 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Still wrong, for the same reasons. See below. Js farrar 16:16, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Completely agree. was thinking the same thing earlier. Look at all the facts chronologically. Luke Donald WON, not just retained. Just because www.rydercup.com says different doesn't make it so. 81.159.180.13 16:16, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Even that BBC website posted above is stating that Stenson puttied the winning point --Shuyin05 16:18, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Include the dormie points which were latterly confirmed, and from interviews with experts on the site, Howell made Europe safe at 14, then Donald made sure Europe won at 15. Cs-wolves 16:21, 24 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Read down - it lists two players as securing the 14. Js farrar 16:24, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Lets be sensible and employ a bit of arithmetic. BBC are not infallible. If Europe got their 14th point after Donald's putt, and there was a least one dormie out there (which there was), then Donald's putt won it. What possible counter-arguement is there? 81.159.180.13 16:37, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

There is none. Luke Donald won the 36th Ryder Cup for Europe. Enough said. Cs-wolves 16:39, 24 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Js farrar you agree with me, Cs-wolves you don't but I think my compromise description should stand for a while at least simply because the un-initiated don't understand - and that is what Wikipedia should do (i.e. explain the facts for the uninitiated). What they've seen on tv has stayed in their minds and it shouldn't be ignored in the article. "Enough said" is simply not good enough - explain (on the article page) how he won it. Seedybob2 16:44, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

No, I totally agree with you, just wanted to put it on the talk page as well. Cs-wolves 16:47, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Sorry CS, cheers ] Seedybob2 16:48, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Totally cool, dude. =) Cs-wolves 16:49, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

The issue is not whether live calculations differ from media reports, but whether they will differ from the long term records of the event. Thus I would propose:
 * Europe's retention of the trophy was sealed when David Howell conceded his win over Brett Wetterich, and the win was certain when Luke Donald beat Chad Campbell. However, the records of the tournament only take account of concluded matches, not guaranteed minimum halves from matches in a dormie situation, and so the records credit Donald with ensuring that Europe retained the trophy and rookie Henrik Stensonwith guaranteeing the victory, Europe's third in succession.

I think this will avoid wikipedia standing in contradiction to official records in years to come, but maintains the correct observations of JSF. I'll post that later unless there is a concensus here to the contrary. Kevin McE 17:04, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I understand and like the words you have proposed, but it depends how you define "records". Just because BBC or other major reporters get it wrong, why does wikipedia have to play along? Surely this page is a "record" which could have an alternative (more correct) view? 81.159.180.13 17:09, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

A player leading a match that is dormy can still be disqualified during the course of play and lose the match. So Stenson's got it. someone else wrote this - who?

I agree with Kevin McE above - and the unsigned comment directly above. The disqualification scenario means you cannot claim the match was won by Donald, though in reality, the dormie situation did make it all-but-academic. The BBC highlights commentary clearly mentioned the dormie situation, and said that the official record, and the updating of the points total, doesn't happen until the matches are finished. Carcharoth 22:15, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Sporting gestures
On another point entirely - one of the BBC commentators annoyed me by complaining the Americans never smiled. He was right, but he didn't have to point it out! And why is there no mention of Tiger Woods' caddy dropping his 9-iron in the lake! :-) I did like McGinley's gesture of conceding JJ Henry's (his opponent) putt on the last - leaving that match all-square (recorded in this article). It did mess up the records a bit though, as otherwise Europe would have had a record win! I also like the way Darren Clarke's opponent (Zach Johnson), after missing his putt to win the 16th hole, did not make Darren Clarke putt out to halve the hole and win the match, but immediately picked up Darren Clarke's ball marker, conceding the putt and the match. Great sportsmanship. Carcharoth 22:15, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Explanations added
Explanations of some of the above has been added to the article. Please expand/improve where needed. Carcharoth 22:45, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Format section added
I've added a format section, explaining or linking to matchplay, singles and team play (foursomes and four-balls). Maybe this can be tweaked and added to other Ryder Cup articles, including the main one at Ryder Cup? Carcharoth 11:47, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh. Ryder Cup does a great job already. I should check next time! :-) Carcharoth 11:51, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Saturday afternoon foursomes: Casey/Howell v Cink/Johnson score
The correct score for this match is 5&4. Casey/Howell were dormie 5 after 13 holes. Casey, with the honour, holed in one at the 14th. Since Cink did not take his tee shot at this hole the hole was halved, hence 5&4. See decision 2-3/2: "The handshake between the players is deemed to represent an agreement to concede each player's next stroke." so strictly speaking Cink scored 1 too. (http://www.rydercup.com/2006/europe/scoring/matches/43.html) Nigej (talk) 11:30, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

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