Talk:2007 Formula One World Championship/Archive 1

Rumors
Why do rumors keep being added?

For example, Davidson is listed as a Super Aguri Driver. But the article clearly says: "Anthony Davidson is expected to...."

Davidson had not been confiremd by the team! (Niether is Sato!)

I've taken the Michael Schumacher possibly being a test driver down, because he was recently annouced as assistant to new Ferrari CEO Jean Todt, his job is to scout new and younger drivers for Ferrari and possibly sign them to the team, he also is a part of the Ferrari Road car production From:RIPped

Editing policy suggestion
Now that it has been decided to keep this article (see above), it is important to keep the information contained within respectable. I have removed M Schumacher from the Toyota driver line up. This is complete and utter speculation. I would suggest we apply the following guidelines to this article and similar speculative articles in relation to F1:-

1) If information is confirmed by a team, driver or the FIA then it should obviuosly be included. e.g. Alonso to McLaren

2) If information is strongly hinted by those invloved and backed up with a large amount of media writing but yet to be confirmed, it should be added but with a * (* = to be confirmed) and references (and links where possible) given.

3) If information has sufficient back-up i.e. respected media strongly suggest it to be true, then it can be added but with a ** (** = Strongly speculated) and references (and links where possible) given.

4) If information is mere speculation in media and general gossip, then it should NOT be added to the article but discussed on this talk page with references (and links where possible) given.

Feedback/comments please. MonkeyMumford 19:15, 17 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree with this policy. I also believe the chart should be removed for the moment because it's there merely to list the few drivers whose contracts are known at the moment.  Speculation on chassis codes and team names however shouldn't be made this early. The359 17:32, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

2007 calendar
I don't know about you, but I'm strongly against showing a calendar in a table, when we don't really have any clue as to what it will look like. It's a total presumtion. I haven't heard of anything about the Mexican GP returning, and the pacific/med gp is still a long way away. Also, the current agreement in place is 16 races (1999 concorde agreement), and I seriously doubt any team will agree with 21 races. We should keep all the notes in a speculation area, but not a table. 83.71.86.125 16:01, 1 June 2006 (UTC)


 * The calender has been brought out now. I updated it but someone will need to edit the paragraph below it.Big Jim 09:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

I've seen it reported that San Marino has been dropped from a new revised calendar but I haven't yet found an online source for this. -smb
 * Here it is! -smb

Williams and Toyota engines
I know that autosport.com has apparantly exclusively 'revealed' that Williams and Toyota have agreed an engine supply deal, but until Williams or Toyota confirm this, it is still speculation. Wikipedia is for solid, concrete information, and Williams-Toyota is not one of them. I'm removing Toyota as Williams' engine, and putting it in the speculation. All other information, like Bridgestone tyres, and chassis names are reasonable guesses which are 90% likely to come true, but autosport might not be actually getting the information from a reliable source. Manipe 16:19, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I thought the policy was that something that was strongly implied and was also backed up by media sources would be placed on the chart and marked with an asterik or two? The359 17:34, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, but only autosport has said that it will happen. And as of now, both Toyota and Williams are denying the story. So it's far from official. Manipe 16:30, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Lexus
Unless I somehow missed it, the rumor of the now confirmed Toyota engines for Williams being labeled as Lexus still exists. I believe some sort of note besides simply 'Toyota' or 'Toyota*' is needed. I'm I'm wrong and the rumor is dead, feel free to correct.
 * Yup, the rumour is dead. See the news link in put into the article. Manipe 12:27, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Red Bull
Red bull racing, today has said that they will use Renult engines for 2007.http://formula-1.updatesport.com/news/article/1150703848/formula_one/F1gossip/Red-Bull-and-Renault/view.html Motor Sport Mad 15:10, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I refuse to accept this as solid fact and news. As displayed in the link, it's clearly gossip, nothing more. There hasn't been any official confirmation about it by either side, which means it cannot be displayed on Wikipedia. Red Bull are contracted to Ferrari until 2007, and will remain RBR's engine supplier on this page until an official announcement from the team says otherwise. If you want, you can add a note about it to the speculation, if it's not already there. I'm going to change it back now. Manipe 16:54, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
 * RBR didn't say, that in 2007 their engines will be Ferrari or Renault. I've put TBA till further info. SpeedKing1980 05:59, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism
I'm sure it's been noticed that someone seems to feel the need to put up fake teams, drivers, nationalities, and other such data in the Drivers & Teams chart. Unfortunately they're not a registered user and their IP address seems to change with every visit, although they do seem to be on the 222.153.*.* block most of the time (which is from a New Zealand ISP). Has anyone been doing anything to try and go through the proper channels to warn this user or get the Wiki Administration's attention?

The most recent changes, I added a Vandalism Warning to this user's talk page, although I'm sure he wont see it since the talk page is connected only to a specific IP address, and it is likely to change before the next time they attempt this.

If anyone sees this user putting up false information, add the warning templates from Vandalism to that user's talk page. I gave him the Test2 template so far, you should continue along the line until we reach Test4, then we can report it to the Administration.

Also be aware that similar things have happened on the 2006 Formula One season and 2008 Formula One season pages, although also done under the IP block 83.50.*.* The359 10:07, 12 July 2006 (UTC)


 * 222.153.*.* vandalised again, given 'Test3' warning. The359 02:52, 14 July 2006 (UTC)


 * can't we just protect the page from unregistered users? It's getting a bit silly now. MonkeyMumford 18:00, 19 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I put in a request, we'll see what they do... The359 08:32, 20 July 2006 (UTC)


 * And, there we go... The359 08:58, 20 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Hoorah! Nice one. MonkeyMumford 11:31, 20 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I notice that some edits of the teams and drivers table have been removed. There is confusion as the paragraph above the table includes "currently speculated for the 2007 Formula One season" yet often speculated information gets removed. Either make this a "confirmed" table or allow speculated data. Recent examples are; David Coulthard / Mark Webber at Reb Bull Racing, which has been confirmed today. Banning people who believe they are providing a contribution is madness. Agree on what the content shall be, and then police it. --Macwomble 17:56, 7 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Banning is done as a very last resort. The problem is its hard sometimes to differentiate between those who believe they are providing a contribution and those who have malicious/mischievous intent. Personally I don't see a problem with including speculation that includes a reference to a reputable source, i.e. BBC News, ITV F1, F1 Racing, Autosport etc. I do however have a problem with "weasel words" - i.e. "it has been reported..." Mark83 18:59, 7 August 2006 (UTC)


 * This is an example of the vandalism I spoke of. That kind of editing and addition of "information" to the article is clearly vandalism and holds no merit to the article, and should be immediately removed.  Unfortunately the only way to prevent this is to semi-protect the article again.
 * As for people who add legitimate drivers and such to the chart, due to the vast number of drivers who could take certain seats, I agree that a driver should only be added to the chart (with an asterik) if they appear to be the lone driver possible for that seat and that assumption is backed up by reputable news sources. The359 05:35, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Renault
If Renault & Alonso win the 06 titles, will alonso be driving car no "0". 01sbrightwell 05 August 2006 (UTC)


 * The team that has the driver who won the world championship the previous year will be 1 and 2. The team that won the constructor's championship the previous year, if it is not the team that the defending champion is driving for in the current year, will be 3 and 4.  So if Alonso wins the title, he'll be #1, and if Renault win the constructor's championship, they'll be #3 and #4.
 * The number 0 is only given to the team who won the constructors' championship, while the drivers' champion is no longer competing in F1. Ie. if Alonso wasn't competing this year (If he retired), Renault would have the numbers 0 and 2 on their cars, because they were the constructors' champions, and because the champ isn't racing. Manipe 21:45, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Just out of curiousity: what numbers will Renault have next year if Alonso wins this championship, but Alonso leaves Renault for another team? Fred Bradstadt 07:14, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I second above request, because I'm still confused! I've created the following table from the information provided above, could somebody check/correct my interpretation? Thanks, Mark83 16:48, 8 August 2006 (UTC)


 * {| class="wikitable"

!Scenario !2007 Renault car numbers !Alonso's (McLaren) car number !Alonso's McLaren teammate number
 * Alonso wins WDC, Renault win WCC
 * 3&4?
 * 1
 * 2
 * Alonso loses WDC, Renault win WCC
 * 3&4?
 * 3 (second to Schumacher)
 * 4
 * Alonso loses WDC, Renault lose WCC
 * 3&4? (second to Ferrari)
 * 3 (second to Schumacher)
 * 4
 * }
 * 3 (second to Schumacher)
 * 4
 * }
 * }

If Alonso wins, and Renault win... Mclaren 1 + 2 Renault 3 + 4 Third Placed Team 5 + 6 etc

If Schumacher and Renault win... Ferrari 1 + 2 (or 0 + 2 if Schumacher retires) Renault 3 + 4 Third Placed Team 5 + 6 etc

If Schumacher and Ferrari win... Ferrari 1 + 2 (or 0 + 2 if Schumacher retires) Second Placed Team 3 + 4 Third Placed Team 5 + 6 etc

If Alonso doesnt win the WDC, his number depends on where McLaren finish in the WCC Renault are pretty certain to get 3 + 4 numbers on their car no matter what ^^ Big Jim 00:01, 9 August 2006 (UTC)


 * As I sated before, whoever wins the driver's championship, regardless of whether or not he stays with the same team, gets #1. His new teammate gets #2.  The rest of the numbers simply go down the standings of the constructor's championship, skipping the team that the world champion now drives for.

The real table (by SpeedKing1980 07:09, 25 August 2006 (UTC)):
 * {| class="wikitable"

!Scenario !2007 Renault car numbers !2007 Ferrari car numbers !Alonso's (McLaren) car number !Alonso's McLaren teammate number
 * Alonso wins WDC, Renault win WCC
 * 3&4
 * 5&6
 * 1
 * 2
 * Alonso loses WDC, Renault win WCC
 * 3&4 (if Schumi stays) 0&2 (if Schumi retires)
 * 1&2 (if Schumi stays) 3&4 (if Schumi retires)
 * 5
 * 6
 * Alonso loses WDC, Renault lose WCC
 * 3&4
 * 1&2 (if Schumi stays) 0&2 (of Schumi retires)
 * 5
 * 6
 * }
 * 5
 * 6
 * }
 * }

Updated by smb:
 * {| class="wikitable"

!Scenario !2007 Renault car numbers !2007 Ferrari car numbers !2007 McLaren car numbers
 * Alonso wins WDC, Renault win WCC*
 * 3&4
 * 5&6
 * 1&2
 * Alonso wins WDC, Renault lose WCC
 * 5&6
 * 3&4
 * 1&2
 * Alonso loses WDC, Renault win WCC
 * 0&2
 * 3&4
 * 5&6
 * Alonso loses WDC, Renault lose WCC
 * 3&4
 * 0&2
 * 5&6
 * }
 * * = as it currently stands
 * Last update by Luxic 08:30, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
 * 5&6
 * }
 * * = as it currently stands
 * Last update by Luxic 08:30, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Last update by Luxic 08:30, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Just to say but if Schumacher would've won the title and Renault won Constructors then Ferrari would have #0 not Renault its the team who field the defending world champion (check the 1995 Formula One Season and the 1994 Formula One Season championship tables. Michael got #1 in 95 but Williams won the constructors in 94 from:RIPped


 * You're wrong. Car numbers are given according to the constructor's championship, except for the World Champ (driver) who is given number one (and his teammate that has got #2). If the Champ retires, numbers are still assigned according to the constructor's championship but nobody gets #1, so the Constructor's Champion are given #0 & #2. – Luxic 21:11, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

German and Italian GPs
Since the official FIA schedule does not list circuits, has there been any confirmation on which specific tracks will be used for the German and Italian GPs? The article in the speculation section implies that Hockenheim and Imola would be dropped, but the calender listed on the page has Hockenheim and Monza listed as the tracks. Any sources on this besides mere speculation? Maybe just put "TBA" for those two GPs until we get something more concrete? The359 18:14, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Nurburgring is the European Grand Prix, Imola is the San Marino Grand Prix. Nothing to do with German and Italian GPs. Mark83 18:20, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, they have plenty to do with the German and Italian GP. Both tracks are possible to be the new German and Italian GP.  Hence the question.  Which of each country's two tracks takes over as the GP for 2007? The359 20:32, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * It's not yet known about Germany, but Monza will definitely host the Italian round. Imola could yet return to the calendar, if the improvement works are completed, as there is currently a four-week break between Bahrain and Spain - something which hasn't happened in years. The German round though I think will begin with the Nurburgring, but I could be wrong. Manipe 20:40, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The other strong rumor is that the round that will fill the break inbetween Bahrain and Spain will be the "Pacific Grand Prix" for Suzuka. The359 02:08, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * As far as I am aware. the German GP will be held at the Nurburgring in 2007 and 2009 and in Hockenheim in 2008 and 2010. DavidB601 07:23, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Renault engines for Red Bull - can't seem to add the reference!
I can't add the link to the news story relating to this for 2007.[]

MonkeyMumford 12:33, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Team principal/tech. director
Should these be in the table? I don't think so. Mark83 11:26, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I tried having the table with just the surnames but that had a minor affect on shortening the width of the table.--Skully Collins 11:41, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
 * having the directors in the table is fine I suppose. The only thing is that the links can lead to completely unrelated people. New pages with " (Formula One)" or something as the article title is needed. Bob Bell is a funny one. Maybe it should not be added. What benefit does it really give? MonkeyMumford 12:43, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I guess it would be easy for those who wish to edit the person's main article. Because the question "Where di he work in 2007?" might be raised in the future. Although I do see your point. I suggest we wait until others give their opinions on the "new look" table.--Skully Collins 12:50, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm happy to wait. The problem I have with it is where do you draw the line? There are many other important people/factors in an F1 team. Also while chassis designation, engine designation, tyre supplier, driver numbers, drivers and test drivers all tend to change year to year, technical directors change irregularly and team principals even less. As for "where did he work in 2007", surely the best place to find that information is on the guy's article? But definitely, let's wait for further opinions. Mark83 13:09, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, personally I'd just have the team directors. Of course these people have the biggest influence on the team more then any other personnel. But then again, I wouldn't mind them both going...as of course you can check who does what in the team's main article and as you said in the person in question's main article.--Skully Collins 13:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
 * This is an article about next year F1 season, so teams and drivers are necessary, while team principals and technical directros are not. If you want to know who fills those places, you shall consult teams' main articles. – Luxic 14:25, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
 * There are Wikipedia pages on all teams detailing team principle and tech director. Just click the team name. This details should be removed. --Macwomble 18:58, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I definately do not see any reason for these people to be listed on the chart. They simply crowd everything in an already busy chart.  The359 04:11, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I think that sums it up. I've removed the columns, cheers.--Skully Collins 07:19, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Updates to table post-Brazilain GP
I understand why McLaren are now No.1 and No.2 (because Alonso keeps his number no matter what team he drives for). However should McLaren be at the top of the table? Renault are still the number one team (W.C. Champions) and won't they have all the status that goes with that (primarily the first garage in the pitlane, Ferrari second, McLaren third.) Should that not be the order of the table? Mark83 20:28, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
 * It should go in numerical order. See 1997 Formula One season, where last year's champion Damon Hill took #1 to Arrows, but obviously Williams was the defending constructor's champion.  Arrows is listed at the top. The359 21:38, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Just because that's the way it's been done on Wikipedia before doesn't make it right. At the moment you could mistakenly believe McLaren are World Constructors' Champions. However if McLaren were listed third and Alonso still listed as the number one driver then it would be easy to understand that he is WDC and Renault are WCCs. Aesthetics shouldn't trump accuracy IMO. Mark83 21:55, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
 * If someone is new to F1, I'm sure they can figure out who is the constructor's champion merely from looking at the 2006 page. Not only that but one could put in a note in the pre-season section about Alonso taking #1 to McLaren. The359 22:10, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Fair points. Mark83 22:28, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Ferrari driver numbers
Team numbers are determined by the team's finishing position (except 1 & 2, which go with the champion driver). Numbers within a team, as far as I know, are picked by the team and do not have to follow championship finishing order. Typically the lower number is given to the driver considered to the lead. Several editors have put Massa as 5 and Raikkonen as 6 because 'Massa finished ahead in the drivers championship'. I don't think this necessarily follows. Anyone have either a reference for Massa as 5 or for a rule that says he will be? Cheers.--4u1e 06:22, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * From my belief it's certainly up to the team to determine who is the lead driver (See: Jensen Button giving his #11 to Barrichello in 2006). However, for within the team, I tend to think that they usually go with the driver who has been with the team the longest.  Or at least the driver who is the "better" driver, most likely to win a championship, however they determine that. The359 06:44, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Unless anything is announced otherwise, they should be in the order they finished the previous year's championship (Massa then Räikkönen), otherwise why not just take all the numbers out until the numbers are announced? Also, Barrichello finished higher than Button in 2005, that's why Barrichello had #11 in 2006. Are there any times drivers have got the better number despite finishing lower the previous year? - MTC 06:53, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Button had #11 irregardless of Barrichello's finishing position in 2005. Button specifically gave Barrichello the number as a nice gesture only after realizing it was Barrichello's "lucky number." The359 07:26, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

In 2001 Panis seems to have carried number 9 (to Villeneuve's 10), despite not having competed in 2000. McLaren and Williams seem to swap it around based on finishing position, but then both teams have a 'no No 1 driver' policy. 4u1e 24 October 2006


 * Car numbers are allocated by the FIA to the team as per the FIA Sporting Regulations. There are no rules over how this is done (see para 45 of the F1 Sporting Code ) but as has been pointed out above it tends to be #1 goes with the champion, and then allocated by constructor table order (missing out 13 of course!).  There is no rule about what happens if the champ retires as there is no rule about how the numbers are handed out in general so it would be for the FIA to determine what happens.  However with the 2008 entry list  the FIA did say that the "numbers will be determined and published as per the final order of the 2007 FIA Formula One World Championship".


 * Similarly there are no rules about how the teams should apply the race numbers amongst their drivers. So Jenson agreed with the team and with Rubens to "give" him #11 this year.  If Massa was above Raikkonen I suspect that someone has inside info, has looked at how Ferrari tend to allocate numbers or, most likely, it is pure speculation.  I say leave the numbers alone for now though because changing them based on anything other than an FIA or a team announcement would be based on guesswork.--Jsydave 12:14, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Whatever number he gets, does anybody believe that Raikkonen hasn't been assured of number 1 status in his contract? Ferrari would have given him anything except the right to change the team's name to McLaren! Mark83 00:54, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Well personally, I think Ferrari will have their two drivers having equal status, although I expect Kimi to have the lower number (#5) --Jsydave 13:26, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Massa will have #5 even if he was behind Raikkonen in the standings due to the fact he is the incumbent driver at Ferrari, Button gave the lead number,11, to Barrichello because he could do so. RIPped


 * He may do, but there's no rule that says so. See above. --4u1e 07:25, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

I've added a note at the bottom of the section saying that the numbers haven't been confirmed. --Skully Collins 14:15, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

you said excluding Mclaren you might want to add Renault to that list because Kovalainen will be new to F1 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by RIPped (talk • contribs).

Are there any proofed statements from Ferrari that Kimi will get Nr. 5? If yes: Please give us a link to it. If No: respect the FIA entry list! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.58.112.126 (talk • contribs).
 * You're a bit late with that! The discussion above was held before the official FIA entry list was released. Much to my surprise, Massa has in fact been given No.5, and this is what the article reflects. Cheers. 4u1e 09:21, 8 December 2006 (UTC)