Talk:2007 Major League Baseball draft

BoSox taking a guy named Dent?
But why? Bwburke94 22:25, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Notability and attention to detail
So many of these draft picks do not meet notability standards for Wikipedia. Being drafted doesn't make you notable. A million minor league players have been drafted and don't meet notablity standards. Someone put a lot of effort into nothing. Also Daniel Payne is not a baseball player page. If you're going to put so much effort into something don't forget the details. Also I don't think any of these guys have signed yet and their new articles say that are A. with a team and B. Major League Baseball players? What is someone thinking?Ekillian 05:13, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, please see Notability (people). Under the athletes section it lists "Competitors who have played or competed at the highest level in amateur sports".  This includes all college athletes in the United States (I disagree that this should be considered notable enough by its own, but my disagreement does not change the fact that this is Wikipedia policy). The guideline does say that meeting one of the criteria does not automatically make someone notable enough for a page, so you may be right that most of these pages should be deleted via AfD, but they aren't speedyable.  I removed 2 of your speedy tags from All-Americans, which I personally think the threshold for inclusion on Wikipedia should be. VegaDark (talk) 07:54, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok well did you go and delete the part where it said the guys were "major league baseball players"? I would much rather a guy not have an article then have an article that says that (if he's not). These guys have NOT signed and are not even minor leaguers yet. Ekillian 08:17, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Ekillian, you have rather arbitrarily placed speedy delete tags on individuals whose articles have multiple reliable and verifiable sources to demonstrate notability, in clear violation of Wikipedia policy. If you have issues regarding statements made on the articles, fix them; you've already edited these articles. Alansohn 11:37, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, that still needs to be corrected. The majority of these players will probably never even make the majors. VegaDark (talk) 08:49, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Absolutely Agreed. Some of the folks that helped out with filling in these drafted players' names on the draft tables, and then going ahead and creating stub articles for each one claiming that "So-and-So is a Major League Baseball Player for the Yada-Yahoos", really jumped the gun big time. These guys will not be Major League Baseball players until they have accepted and signed (could take months and months) and then have actually played in a MLB game (could take years or never even happen).  And they won't be "for the Yada Yahoos" until they actually sign with that team: they may get traded around several times before settling in to play for a specific franchise.    17 of the 30 players in the first round were not even COLLEGE players - they were drafted straight out of high school, and some of those may still have high school games to finish before they even graduate.  Furthermore most drafted players who sign will spend considerable time developing in the farm system in the Minor Leagues, before setting foot in a major league ballpark and being In the Majors.  As the creator of this article, I had no intention of creating ANY player articles until they were "official" and had bigger profiles at MLB.com and other secondary notability (from newspaper game reports, baseball cards, etc.) that would pass muster in an AfD debate.  I would not be offended at all if an Admin were to come in and speedily delete all the Players who have newly created stub articles, which claim to be something that they are not.  It was a mistake to let it happen in the first place, but once this snowball started yesterday afternoon at 2pm there was no stopping it until about 5 hours later, as seen in the edit history.  --T-dot ( Talk/ contribs ) 09:34, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Now these articles have been fixed. I edited them out to say "who was drafted by the [insert team here] #x overall" instead of "plays for [insert team here]." Now that their accurate, there should not really be a deletion problem. All speculative information is gone and they all have links proving they were drafted. Thanks for smacking me upside the head with these sudden deletion alerts. No need to do that now Soxrock 11:55, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
 * There is still a very strong possibility that at least some of the player articles will be sent to articles for deletion, if not resubmitted for speedy deletion, since the articles still imply that the drafted players are CURRENTLY Major League Players, which they are not. Many will likely play college ball instead, even among the first-rounders.  The status of 17 of the 30 first round guys is that they played high school baseball, and got drafted by MLB yesterday.  To my knowledge none have signed yet, and certainly none have been issued uniforms or equipment, or been placed on an active team roster, or swung a bat or thrown a pitch as a professional, so there is a good chance they would fail notability for athletes:


 * Competitors who have played in a fully professional league, or a competition of equivalent standing in a non-league sport such as swimming and tennis
 * Competitors who have played or competed at the highest level in amateur sports.
 * Please understand I am not opposed to the project here - I am a very active participant in forming this whole Draft page. But I also have had a lot of experience with debating and defending in AFD's, and these guys' articles are highly vulnerable if the "deletionists" get hold of the list.  Fair warning.  --T-dot ( Talk/ contribs ) 14:39, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok, and I don't mean to sound like a needy person, but can you help me complete that process. I thought that I had done it right. Obviously, some still need working. Soxrock 14:48, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes I intend to, but in an orderly fashion. I spent most all last afternoon and evening chasing down all the newly created player-article stubs, trying to fix screwed up article formatting, random vandalism, and player's name spelling errors, and misdirected disambiguation links to the wrong person and whatnot; and also providing proper verifiable reference links to prove the player was "real" and their draft position was legitimate, and not just some kid putting his name up on the Wikipedia to impress his girfriend; not to mention addressing the posted "references" template (identifying them as unsourced articles) which was strangely added, making them all immediate candidates for speedy deletion anyway; all this just trying to help keep order.  The next step is really to create nice full-page articles for each player, complying with WP:BIO and WP:BLP and all the policies and guidelines, using newspaper articles and MLB.com and the old school roster page info, to make proper biographies.  That is a huge amount of work - hours of research per player.  For 64 players, this could take weeks to complete, and by then the AFD process may take many of them down.  Which is why I left the players names unlinked in the first place: so they could be made into biographical articles at leisure, after the players sign and make it official.  Unfortunately I have high school baseball tournament games to attend to today and all weekend, so I'm a bit tied up in the short term.  If you want to see the type of article we are supposed to make, see Derek Jeter or Justin Verlander for MLB examples.  --T-dot ( Talk/ contribs ) 15:10, 8 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok, I'll get to work almost immediately. I have a lot of open time. Considering those are stub sections on Jeter's, which will be my example, I ought to get them done quickly enough. However, I am still working on transforming the other articles to be as little jump the gun as possible (see my contributions to see my latest work). I am probably working too much, but I spent too much time yesterday to lose over 200 cumulative edits. It's too much to lose. Hope you have fun at your tournament games this weekend. I'll try to do as much as possible. Soxrock 15:27, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I was planning to pick one of the player articles this weekend, based on likelihood of surviving an WP:AFD, and try to "deep dive" on his available online info, from Google and Yahoo searches; and then compose a "benchmark" article consisting of all the notable information I think is reasonable for a young baseball player.  One of the current college-player draftees would be ideal because they usually have some excellent background and career stats information on their team roster and stats pages, that can then be explored deeper and expanded upon, with adequate reference links to reliable sources for verifiability.  When the format and content of that initial article settles down to a consensus, perhaps we can assemble a research and composition team to do similar articles, systematically working through the other notable players.  But please feel free to get a head start if there is a player you would particularly like to research and work out a Jeter-like article (it is not all stub sections, if you will look a little deeper).  Anyway if any of the articles come up for AFD, they will get a banner saying so at the top with a link to the debate: we can oppose the AFD and state that the stub articles are going to be expanded but there are 64 of them and it will take time to assemble the data.  Usually articles have a week or so to debate notability of the subject and the quality of the article, and usually the AFD will result in a "keep and improve" if there is someone committed to doing so.  That said, the high schoolers are all highly vulnerable to deletion as not notable (yet), until they are properly signed and on the field playing in the Majors.  We'll see what happens.  --T-dot ( Talk/ contribs ) 16:06, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

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