Talk:2008 Akihabara massacre/Archive 2

Good article?
I think this article may meet requirements for Good Article status. Thoughts? ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 17:44, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Information is still coming in (current event), so it is best to hold on until things start to stabilize first. - Mailer Diablo 17:46, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It's fine to have a good article which is still being updated. The "stabilized" part of the GA requirements is referring to edit wars, and there don't appear to be any of those here. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 18:07, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * In that case I believe the article currently has everything for what is required of a GA. - Cheers, Mailer Diablo 18:13, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * More information (more than the information on the article is revealed from the police invesigation) and more references for the current information on the article can be added I think. --staka (T ・C) 19:16, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Articles can always be improved, and I have been doing that myself, too. I just think that the current article is good enough for a possible chance at GA. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 19:23, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Shouldn't we add more internal wikilinks? Currently, I only see one in the article text, the high school article. --staka (T ・C) 02:32, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * For some reason of network problems I can't access Japanese-based sites. I'll regroup and tabulate the sources tomorrow. There's a lot of details that have yet to be added. - Mailer Diablo 20:16, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, sounds good. I have some RL issues which need addressing, so I won't be here consistently for a couple or three days. Off and on, though. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 03:16, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Number of injured
How many people were injured? Wikipedia still says 11, but most newspapers now state 10. So, what's correct? (Lord Gøn (talk) 21:02, 10 June 2008 (UTC))
 * This has been corrected. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 21:16, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * `A woman, Mai Mutō (21), was also killed.` Also? What is the difference between 7 men being killed and a woman being killed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.166.60.37 (talk) 21:07, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
 * That's how it was reported, so that's how we reported it. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 21:26, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

clothing
I find it jarring to read a description of the suspect's clothing in the lede. Why is this at all relevant? Is there some cultural context I am missing? If, for example, he had been wearing a suit or a uniform, would this matter? --C S (talk) 09:31, 11 June 2008 (UTC)


 * The exact clothing could be moved to someplace else in the article, though I don't see the need personally. I don't find it jarring to see it there. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 00:17, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

The article is still developing, clothing of the attacker will probably drop down eventually. What the attacker is wearing may be relevant, eg he was not wearing "combat clothing" as has been typical in many North American (and other?) spree killings. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.71.5.46 (talk) 03:38, 12 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm not aware that combat clothing has been so typical in killings in North America or elsewhere. I wonder if your comment is just a reflection of your cultural biases.  I find it odd that your default assumption should be that he was wearing "combat clothing" and thus it is notable that he wasn't.  I think if the killer had been wearing commando type clothing, it would have garnered great attention and so should be mentioned.  But nobody has found his wearing of a black t-shirt and off-white trousers to be of any importance.  The IHT reference simply mentions it to add some detail to the writing, not because they thought it was a relevant detail.  --C S (talk) 00:01, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Photo Question
I got some photos of police presence in Akihabara after the massacre took place. I'm wondering if I can upload one? Ominae (talk) 09:27, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Sure, they're welcome. Upload them to Wikipedia Commons. - Mailer Diablo 03:46, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll go and do it. Should I upload one or two? I've also got a photo of the Tokyo Fire Department and TMPD forensic investigators too. Ominae (talk) 04:45, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * More than one is definitely welcomed, but they are most likely to be displayed at the Commons gallery for multi-language Wikipedias. - Mailer Diablo 05:11, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with Mailer Diablo. Upload as many as possible. It's always better to have a few extra images than not enough. Please be sure to add them to Category:Akihabara massacre, June 2008, too. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 05:20, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Also, please upload as large a version as possible. Larger files can be more useful. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 05:22, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Rearrested?
According to |today's Asahi Shimbun Katô has been rearrested. However, it is not clear when or why he was released in the first place. Was he released from the custody of the prosecuting investigators after 20 days? I'm afraid this is really not clear from this Wikipedia article, nor from the extremely brief Asahi article. Clarification would be great. Thanks. LordAmeth (talk) 10:58, 21 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't know what "rearrested" (再逮捕) means, but it seems to mean "charged with additional crimes." The word commonly appears in reports of criminal proceedings. I get the impression the authorities first charge a person with a lesser crime while they gather a stronger case, then when they have sufficient evidence, charge him or her with the higher crimes. It does not seem to mean the accused had been released. Fg2 (talk) 11:05, 21 June 2008 (UTC)


 * P.S. Here's an article mentioning the rearrest. This might be what became of the article you linked to, which is no longer at that address. Fg2 (talk) 11:12, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I think he must have been released just formally to be arrested again within a short time. "Rearrest" (再逮捕) is not a legal term of Japan meaning a step in criminal cases, but a term used by news media. As Fg2 implies, this means "arrest an arrested person on another suspicion." On the first suspicion of attempted murder, he had already been arrested red-handed by police without a warrant, and sent to the prosecutors. On murder, police continued questioning him, and finally officially arrested him under an arrest warrant. --Dumpty-Humpty (talk) 09:48, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Worth?
Does this article meet WP standards for inclusion? How does some guy going bonkers in Japan affect me enough to warrant it's own article? I understand Japan has a very low incident rate of violent crime, but still. Was anyone important killed? No? Then why is this here? I don't understand the notability being asserted here. Howa0082 (talk) 03:54, 3 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I see you've been editing Wikipedia a while now and even know some of the buzzwords like "notability"! Nonetheless, you may be surprised to learn that Wikipedians have developed a set of guidelines to answer your very questions!  The main one is called  Notability.  This lays out the general notability criterion and some example uses.  Have fun reading!  --C S (talk) 04:24, 3 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Don't be a cock, and just answer my question here. What importance does a killing in Akiba have to the average person? Howa0082 (talk) 04:56, 3 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, considering that major newspapers and other news outlets worldwide covered this (as evidenced by the reference section in the article), apparently quite a lot. As for important people being killed, I'd suggest that every person is important to those over whom they have some influence. And who knows what one of these people may have accomplished in his or her life if it hadn't been (literally) cut short by this disturbed person? Perhaps one of them would have discovered a cure for cancer, or perhaps an advanced method of transportation which didn't need fossil fuels. Notability has nothing to do with a person being important (though there is some overlap between the two). Notability has to do with how much information can be found out about them in reliable third party sources. If there is enough to create a well sourced article (such as this), then the topic is absolutely important and notable. And remember: please try to remain civil; calling people rude names does nothing to inspire people to want to answer your questions. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 06:25, 3 July 2008 (UTC)


 * When people are condescending to me, it doesn't inspire me to be civil. I don't particularly care if something is well sourced when the article fails to explain the importance of it's subject. There was a multiple homicide in Akiba. So? Why is this important? Why is it important what color Kato's pants were? As far as I can tell from the text, the impact of this event is to cancel some Metal Gear Solid 4 launch events, and make that one road in Akihabara no longer pedestrian-only on Sundays (for now). Again, how is this important? The article does not say, and simply having over 30 sources is not an explanation, sorry. Howa0082 (talk) 15:49, 3 July 2008 (UTC)


 * "Importance" is not a factor or qualification for inclusion in Wikipedia. Notability and verifiability, with reliable sources to back up the notability and verifiability, are what is required. This article meets those requirements, and several people took the time to create it based on that, so there doesn't need to be any other explanation of why the article is here. And regardless of how civil others are to you, you should still be civil back to them. If you don't you risk being blocked from participation here. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 00:55, 4 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Also a notable news as it was on the Wikipedia News section on June 9. --staka (T ・C) 03:27, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * You say something's that covered by BBC, CNN, TIME, NHK, AP and AFP isn't notable? - Mailer Diablo 21:29, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Contradiction
it says he killed 4 people and it also says he killed 7 people. which is it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.230.234.79 (talk) 09:28, 23 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Read the whole sentence again. --DAJF (talk) 09:53, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Sentencing & Execution date
So what's his sentence if he's guilty?

88.105.74.247 (talk) 07:44, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, if the case of Mamoru Takuma is any indication then he might be sentenced to death. Lord Gøn (talk) 12:36, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

When's the execution date?

What's the current court proceedings? 88.105.91.16 (talk) 12:10, 1 September 2008 (UTC)


 * In Japan, executions are not normally announced until after they have been carried out. In this case, the trial has not even started, and speculation about possible sentences is not appropriate for a Wikipedia article. --DAJF (talk) 12:55, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Okay, so can we at least speculate on when the court proceedings will take place? Or maybe he currently deemed as "not mentally fit" to serve as a defence of his alleged crimes?

It has being quiet for a while after the incident occurred. I suspect of a media blackout has being issued by the authorities for whatever reasons that may be. 88.105.20.89 (talk) 10:52, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright violations?
Either Reuters is stealing from Wikipedia or vica versa. Whats going on? Winnie-the-Pooh held for robbery? This article has an image used in this article and credits it to REUTERS/Yuriko Nakao. I tend to think Wikipedia has been tricked regarding the rights of this image. What do you all think? Being that the uploader has a very short history on Commons and file size is so small I think that this is most likely a violation and should be dealt with? Cheers, Nesnad (talk) 21:46, 12 August 2008 (UTC)


 * You should report this over on Commons. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 02:14, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually the user has a ton of copyvios over here too. In fact the user asked your "permission" on this page to upload said images so I'm thinking that said user might just not understand how to tag images. Nihonjyou, as the person who already communicated with said user, would you mind explaining the problem to the user directly and see how that goes? Cheers, Nesnad (talk) 17:17, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Who is Nihonjyou? I don't see anyone here by that name. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 06:12, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Bot report : Found duplicate references !
In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :) DumZiBoT (talk) 01:06, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "mai-Jun16-2minutes" :
 * As some people gathered to care for the victims,
 * As some people gathered to care for the victims,

Stuff on EGM mag
Found an article on the massacre. I'll see if I can add anything on the wiki one here. Cheers Ominae (talk) 06:29, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Recent stabbings
It is interesting to see how different rather similar incidents are treated in this world. While the Akihabara massacre got lots of media attention all over the world, the stabbing rampage by Yang Jia was barely mentioned anywhere, nor is the massacre in Gangnam that happened just yesterday. Anyone want to start an article about that one? (Lord Gøn (talk) 20:46, 21 October 2008 (UTC))


 * Not familiar with them. If you are, you'd be in the best position to start the article. Want to give it a try? Fg2 (talk) 21:17, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Tell me how to name it and I'll go ahead. Gangnam massacre sounds stupid in my ears, as does Gosiwon stabbing. Can't name it after the perpetrator either, as only his last name is known. So what shall the article be called? Any suggestions? (Lord Gøn (talk) 23:17, 21 October 2008 (UTC))
 * Well, it now goes by the name Nonhyeon-dong massacre. Anyone making the article a wee-bit more comprehensive is very welcome. (Lord Gøn (talk) 16:18, 22 October 2008 (UTC))
 * Looks like a good exposition. Thanks for starting the article. Fg2 (talk) 21:25, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Found something
Don't know about this, but I got this little excerpt from the Sept 2008 EGM magazine that could be used:

"The media quickly sought to label the attack as part of the growing epidemic of "kieru", acts of explosive rage committed by Tokyo's legion of alienated, disillusioned youth. The killer's status as an otaku served to reinforce negative stereotypes of compulsive, antisocial behavior." Ominae (talk) 20:39, 12 September 2009 (UTC)