Talk:2008 Copa Sudamericana

Comment
http://www.concacaf.com/view_article.asp?lang=en&id=3801

CONCACAF Champions Cup runner-up will go to Copa Sudamericana


 * That article dates from May 2007. It predates the information on the CONCACAF Champions League.  It is possible that a team, like Saprissa, cannot play in both the 2008-09 CONCACAF Champions League and the 2008 Copa Sudamericana. Ltv100 (talk)


 * I have had to revert twice to remove a claim that has no support. If there is proof that Deportivo Saprissa is going to represent CONCACAF in this competition, then it needs to be cited.  So far, the only "proof" is an article form May of 2007 which indicates that the 2008 CONCACAF Champions' Cup runner up will be a representative in Copa Sudamericana.  However, that article predates the formation of the CONCACAF Champions League and does not take into account the potential schedule conflict.  If there is new, recent information that specifically says that Saprissa or the CONCACAF Champions' Cup runner-up will participate in Sudamericana, then that documention would be appreciated.  The only article that I can find that comments on the issue actually says the exact opposite -- that Saprissa would not participate in Copa Sudamericana due to their involvement in the CONCACAF Champions League.  I have cited that article for reference.Ltv100 (talk) 16:50, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

You have yet to show any proof or official word from CONMEBOL or CONCACAF that Saprissa will not participate. Is it that hard to understand?Gethomas3 (talk) 17:56, 1 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Lack of proof is not evidence to the contrary. I have yet to see any proof or official word from CONMEBOL or CONCACAF that the Los Angeles Galaxy will not participate.  Should I list them?  Proper proof in this case would be an article saying that Saprissa is invited.  CONMEBOL's website, which lists the qualified teams to date, is notably silent in this issue.
 * A team shouldn't be listed until they are actually officially invited. Is it so hard to understand?Ltv100 (talk) 18:02, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

It has been stated before the competition that the runners-up of the tournament will participate in the Copa Sudamericana. Now, I don't know why you are trying to twist this in such a way that will make you think some CONCACAF member will glance at the page and say, "Let's invite an MMLS team". There was an official word that the CCC 2008 runners-up will participate. There is no official word that Saprissa will not participate. At the end of the day, those are the facts. All you are doing is acting childish.


 * You may be confused. This is wikipedia, not a sports message board. The goal of wikipedia is to provide information.  As per wikipedia standards, all information should be factual and properly supported.
 * I'm not trying to "twist" the information in any way. I want to see a list of teams that is complete and accurate.  As of yet, I have seen no proof that Saprissa will be taking part in Copa Sudamericana 2008.  Were there to be, say, a press release from the team or from CONCACAF which said Saprissa would be participating, then that would work.  Were Saprissa listed amongst the teams on the CONMEBOL website front page, that would work.  The only tenuous support you have to your assertion is an article from May of 2007 from CONCACAF, which would be good proof except it is potentially out of date given the subsequent development of the CONCACAF Champions League.  Nevertheless, I have continued to cite that article, because it is an important piece of information.  I have also cited a much more recent article which specifically says that Saprissa would not play in Sudamericana since the schedule conflicts with the new CONCACAF Champions League in which Saprissa is competing.  At this time, that is all the definite information we have and the page with the proper citations reflects that.  All you are doing is making an assertion which may or may not come to pass.  Wikipedia is not intended for such purposes.
 * Also, I have no idea what "MMLS" is? Is that a typo for "MLS"?  If so, I don't see what that has to do with anything.  There is no mention of MLS or any other teams on the page.Ltv100 (talk) 18:48, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Did that newspaper article had an official source from CONCACAF or CONMEBOL saying that Saprissa will not play? No. Did CONCACAF printed out a page where it says the runners-up will play the CS? Yes.

It doesn't matter whether the page is 1 day old or 1 year old. Official news is official news. World Cups are held years in advance. Does that mean an official ruling of an official source is overruled because some newspaper have someone saying the site or situation will not be suitable?


 * As I have already said, the CONCACAF article from May 2007 is important and should be mentioned. Which has been done.  It is also important to list the Nacion article, which contradicts it.  At this point, the burden of evidence to list Saprissa in the chart is a recent article which explicitly says that Saprissa is participating.  Like the team being listed on the CONMEBOL website.  Or a press release from CONCACAF or Saprissa themselves.  It is interesting and informative to note that the CONCACAF article on CF Pachuca's victory in the 2008 CONCACAF Champions' Cup does not indicate anything about Saprissa's involvement in Copa Sudamercana, though it does mention CF Pachuca's invitation to the Club World Cup.
 * The date of the previous CONCACAF article is very important simply because the situation has changed. Subsiquent to that article, the development of the CONCACAF Champions League was announced and the schedule conflicts with that of Copa Sudamericana.  Saprissa is slated to appear in the CONCACAF Champions League this fall. At this point, barring any official word on an invitation for Saprissa, the sensible thing is to state the facts, cite the references, and list the possiblity of their participation without asserting that it is going to happen. Ltv100 (talk) 20:01, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

the participant is not defined. The participant was not defined. The Conmebol reported to be a guest.

--leeeeoo (talk) 19:27, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

This page is very wrong. Santos Laguna cannot play in Sudamericana because of Concacaf Champions League. San Luis, the 4th place team in the Clausura, is taking their place. Also, Saprissa can't play in Sudamericana becuase of date conflicts with Concacaf Champions League. I havent seen anything saying who will participate in their place, but it will not be them. Maizenblue07 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 16:07, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Totally correct. The people who are insisting on changing the page need to stop.  If they have evidence for their claim of Saprissa participating then they need to cite a source.  In light of the clear conflict of schedules (with Saprissa and Santos participating in the CONCACAF Champions League) and sources specifically indicating they will not participate (like the Nacion article that is cited with regards to Saprissa), we cannot assume they will play.  As such they should not be listed.  Only teams that are confirmed to be participating should be included.Ltv100 (talk) 18:07, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

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