Talk:2008 Mayo by-election

Greg Champion - Independent
Unable to find a cite. Added fact tag, was removed. Suggestions? Timeshift (talk) 13:35, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The revision history shows that the anonymous editor was trying to cite www.abc.net.au/coobabeens. Unfortunately the ABC site is down for the time being so I can't tell whether it backs up the claim. Bush shep (talk) 16:42, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
 * UPDATE: It's a broken link. Bush shep (talk) 19:20, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

It would appear he is a candidate. Timeshift (talk) 06:07, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm now questioning whether infact Champion is a candidate. The citation is slightly questionable on it's own considering I am still unable to find any other refs for Champion. This article on 7/8 doesn't list him, but it doesn't list Spragg either nor did it even bother to get the Mayo 2pp margin right. Timeshift (talk) 06:56, 9 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree the cite is highly questionable, it says "The Coodabeens' own Greg Champion has put his hand up as replacement for the outgoing member! Well, Jeff, Ian and Billy put their hands up on his behalf." I'll remove it, pending a more reliable source. Peter Ballard (talk) 07:08, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Jamie Briggs
The article states that Briggs's preselection was controversial, but goes no further. I think there needs to be some elucidation of this point. Bush shep (talk) 16:42, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I was trying to maintain NPOV. Care to reword it? Timeshift (talk) 23:33, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Bill Spragg
Independent Bill Spragg has added himself, and even created a page about himself. While I'm sure the Bill Spragg article will get deleted, do we keep mention of him in this article? He obviously violated WP:AUTO, and perhaps we should wait for independent mention of him in the news. On the other hand, he did poll 3% in 2001, which isn't bad for an independent, and is a local councillor, so perhaps he deserves a mention anyway. I'm also inclined to be more generous to people who edit themselves under their own name rather than a pseudonym. Thoughts? Peter Ballard (talk) 03:48, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
 * There is no internet page I can find announcing his candidacy, let alone a WP:RS. I'm inclined to delete his candidacy for the seat unless we have evidence to support the claim. Timeshift (talk) 04:26, 29 July 2008 (UTC)


 * response: For you information Peter and Timeshift, on the 16th July 2008 the Mt Barker Courier (a paper local to the Mayo electorate) ran a front page article announcing my intention to stand as an independent in the Mayo by-election. I have already obtained a nomination form from the Adelaide office of the AEC and have more than 50 signatures on the nomination form. I cannot nominate, and neither can any other candidate, until the Speaker of the House of Representatives issues a writ for the by-election.Billspragg (talk) 05:29, 29 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Why don't you have a candidacy page somewhere on the internet? You chose your Wikipedia userpage as your first announcement of candidacy anywhere on the internet? Seems a bit odd if you ask me... the only link you have, www.billspragg.net.au, doesn't exist. As far as Bill Spragg goes, it will be deleted. Council and election candidate is not noteworthy. Timeshift (talk) 05:33, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

For those who want a reference on the internet to verify my intentions try the Courier article at http://thecouriernews.blogspot.com/2008/07/councillors-in-bid-for-mayo-seat.html I have applied for a domain name and am waiting for it to be processed. I have a home page on my isp iprimus but who would want to follow home.iprimus.com.au/spragg_womersley and the only reason I created a WP bio was because I looked at Greg Champion's page and thought it was OK. If being a musician is notable then why isn't being an elected member to local government. I have no problems with the bio being deleted after the election but it is important information for the voters of Mayo. Billspragg (talk) 05:53, 29 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Fair enough, ref inserted in to article. However Bill Spragg will be deleted, see Articles for deletion/George Colbran who no offense is more noteable, but not sufficiently noteable for wikipedia. As to why Greg Champion has one, he is also noteable but for different reasons, but sufficiently noteable for wikipedia is debateable. Timeshift (talk) 05:58, 29 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I pretty well second everything Timeshift has said: no offence, but being a local councillor or a candidate for an election does not make you notable enough for Wikipedia. We generally draw the line at elected state or federal reps. Greg Champion is an exception because he's a notable musician, whether or not he gets elected. The problem with your personal Wikipedia page is that it is not independent, reliably sourced information, but it comes direct from you and could be sugar-coated (maybe its not, but we've got no way of telling), which is why WP:Autobiography is strongly discouraged. I think an appropriate level of coverage is a brief sentence or so on each candidate (including you) with a link to an official page of yours if it exists. Peter Ballard (talk) 06:49, 29 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I understand where you are coming from but I feel more than a little bit victimised. I have searched wikipedia for other biographs about Councillors and, apart from the possibility that others may have written the pages, the content of Eddy Sarkis and Saeed Khan is the same as my content. If this is such a no-no why are their pages still around? The question of verifiable is an interesting one because although I can produce documentary evidence who needs to see it and how do I show it to them? I will change the link to an external page and then there will be no issue for wikipedia about accuracy and validity or notariety. Billspragg (talk) 13:09, 29 July 2008 (UTC)


 * We take each page on it's merit. I'm sorry you feel victimised but it's simply wikipedia policy, being a local councillor and an election candidate is not noteable, and wikipedia does not subscribe to the theory that just because one type of article exists, it gives precedent for another article. If those pages fail wikipedia's noteability guidelines then they should be deleted too. But I have never come across them, I have come across this as I edit election and political pages. Timeshift (talk) 13:12, 29 July 2008 (UTC)


 * FWIW, I think Saeed Khan and Eddy Sarkis are candidates for deletion too. They are little more than campaign pages too. But yours is even more clear-cut because it was written by you yourself. Sorry if you feel victimised, but we come across a lot of people using Wikipedia to promote themselves, and the only way to stop everyone from using Wikipedia to promote themselves is to have rules in place. Peter Ballard (talk) 00:47, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, just because a page currently exists doesn't mean we've approved it. It too can (and in my opinion should) be open to deletion if it fails to meet Wikipedia's criteria. Orderinchaos 05:24, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Discussion to delete page in progress at Articles for deletion/Bill Spragg. Whilst the page will be removed, there are no issues keeping your candidacy information as is on the article, the only change being your name will be de-linked. The rest including the refs are no issue. Timeshift (talk) 05:01, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Bob Day
Is the latest politician to engage in the practise of article censorship. Attention by wikipedians appreciated. Timeshift (talk) 12:32, 5 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, but surely the external link can stay. We could also cut/paste the sentence on his resignation from here. Peter Ballard (talk) 12:39, 5 August 2008 (UTC)


 * No probs. Timeshift (talk) 12:47, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Brian Deegan
I have been informed by a reporter from The Courier that Brian Deegan has advised her today, Tuesday 5th August, he would not be nominating. Billspragg (talk) 13:40, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Professor Diane Bell
I was also been informed by the same reporter that Professor Diane Bell would be nominating. An article will appear in The Courier on the 6th August about Professor Bell.

Professor Bell a resident of Finniss is Professor of Anthropology, University of Adelaide and a member of the River Lakes and Coorong Action Group. Given the flak I copped over adding myself to the list of candidates I hesitate to add Professor Bell. Billspragg (talk) 13:40, 5 August 2008 (UTC)


 * When you have a verifiable source available you are welcome to add it. Stop taking this personally. Timeshift (talk) 13:45, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

One Nation
Although no word has been heard from One Nation about its intentions, a One Nation election poster has appeared amid all the other posters in Mt Barker. We may have to wait until the ballot for positions on the ticket to find out if they are standing a candidate Billspragg (talk) 10:25, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

One Nation SA Division has announced their candidate for the by-election so he has been added to the list of candidates with a link to the announcement.Billspragg (talk) 13:46, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Who nominates a candidate's occupation?
Is it the candidate? I note that Bob Day has 'builder', yet people who have founded or own businesses are considered businessmen, not the trades which they employ people to do - ie: if someone owns/runs/founds a McDonalds, that does not make them a cook. Timeshift (talk) 06:59, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * "Builder" can be used of the owner of a building business, e.g. see this recent news story. Peter Ballard (talk) 10:54, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * The article starts with "An Adelaide woman is taking a housing company to court", with the headline "Builder accused of sexual harassment". The company not the person. And it says builder in the headline but not the article? Timeshift (talk) 11:01, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Oops you're right. But I still think I've heard the term for a building company owner. Peter Ballard (talk) 11:54, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Noteworthy?
Alexander Downer thumbs nose at Liberal how-to-vote card: The Australian 28/8/2008 Timeshift (talk) 01:48, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Not really. He still voted Liberal. Most thinking voters don't slavishly follow a HTV card. Bush shep (talk) 08:06, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It is the fact that he made a point of it to the media, not so much that he didn't follow the HTV card. He stated he preferenced the DLP over FFP and then went on to slag Bob Day off. It was the fact he made a point of it which i'm asking if we should consider it noteworthy. Or perhaps on Alexander Downer's article? I mean, for a Liberal MP to preference the economically left CDP over New Rightist Bob Day... we wouldn't have known unless he decided to make a point of it. Timeshift (talk) 09:34, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Not over yet?
An intriguing possibility was raised on ABC radio this morning. The preliminary choices for 2PP count is done on 1st preference votes alone, so that was Liberals (41%) and Greens (21%). But some people are suggesting that Di Bell (16%) might have enough preferences to overtake the Greens, and could then conceivably threaten to take the seat. Anyway, it's certainly a possibility, and we won't really know until full distribition of preferences is done. Peter Ballard (talk) 02:54, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

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